Update: Democracy Project recounts the story of Arun Gandhi being confronted with a couple of the uncomfortable quotes from his grandfather's past: Is Arun Gandhi A Hypocrite
Left at the Washington Post site...
Btw, the world is a saner place thanks to LGF...
The worst type of a racist or bigot is not the obvious in your face one.... but subtle highbrow bigot who sneers down his nose at you like a child.... As the Northern "liberals" used to aid the 'black man' from the "bigoted Southern white man" while yet looking down at the "negro"..... we now get a full dose of Mr. Gandhi's sneering high brow bigotry while using his 'holier than though' "non-nviolence" persona for good measure...
Last time I checked the land India and Pakistan were fighting over a parcel of land not in the least crucial to either nation's survival or security. Yet India will simply not make "friends with its enemy" and perhaps "give cede the land" in the name of "peace".....
Yet Mr. Gandhi preaches to Israel and Jews worldwide about the problems Israel faces that Israel simply does not want to "embrace its enemy"..... Yes, the Arab world's mental and physical rejection/war against Israel's existence is predicated solely on land "give backs" and stubborn Israeli mindset.....
And then he has the nerve to say the "culture of violence" is led by Israel.... bcs you know the tiny country has more reporters in it per square mile than any other country in the world.....
Lest we see Darfur or India, China, Tibet, Saudi Arabia or Pakistan with the same per capita of free reporters blasting images daily.... and then compare...
I should say lets compare how many Palestinians have died due to fighting with Israel in the past 7 years with the amount of Darfurians, Tibetans, Chechnyans, India or Pakistanis, etc.... etc.....
Of course the fact that Israel is blasted front and center of every newspaper and magazine any time there is violence or Isreali response.... while far worse violence goes on daily un or underreporterd bcs it is truly dangerous or impossible (China, Russia, North Korea, Iran) for a truly "independent" reporter to report from that location.
This can be found on Peace Palestine. Is it genuine? Many pro-Palestinian sites feature the text.
What Gandhi had to say about Zionism
"The cry for the national home for the Jews does not make much appeal to me. The sanction for it is sought in the Bible and the tenacity with which the Jews have hankered after return to Palestine. Why should they not, like other peoples of the earth, make that country their home where they are born and where they earn their livelihood? Palestine belongs to the Arabs in the same sense that England belongs to the English or France to the French. It is wrong and in-human to impose the Jews on the Arabs. What is going on in Palestine today cannot be justified by any moral code of conduct. The mandates have no sanction but that of the last war. Surely it would be a crime against humanity to reduce the proud Arabs so that Palestine can be restored to the Jews partly or wholly as their national home.
The nobler course would be to insist on a just treatment of the Jews wherever they are born and bred. The Jews born in France are French in precisely the same sense that Christians born in France are French. If the Jews have no home but Palestine, will they relish the idea of being forced to leave the other parts of the world in which they are settled? Or do they want a double home where they can remain at will? This cry for the national home affords a colourable justification for the German expulsion of the Jews.
I am not defending the Arab excesses. I wish they had chosen the way of non-violence in resisting what they rightly regarded as an unwarrantable encroachment upon their country. But according to the accepted canons of right and wrong, nothing can be said against the Arab resistance in the face of overwhelming odds.
Let the Jews who claim to be the chosen race prove their title by choosing the way of non-violence for vindicating their position on earth. Every country is their home including Palestine not by aggression but by loving service. A Jewish friend has sent me a book called The Jewish Contribution to Civilization by Cecil Roth. It gives a record of what the Jews have done to enrich the world's literature, art, music, drama, science, medicine, agriculture, etc. Given the will, the Jew can refuse to be treated as the outcaste of the West, to be despised or patronized. He can command the attention and respect of the world by being man, the chosen creation of God, instead of being man who is fast sinking to the brute and forsaken by God. They can add to their many contributions the surpassing contribution of non-violent action."
SEGAON, November 20, 1938 Harijan, 26-11-1938 (Vol. 74, pp. 239-242) http://www.gcmhp.net/File_files/Ghandi.html
Also, from "Mahatma Gandhi Rejected Zionism" by Professor A.K. Ramakrishnan
"The 1937 Calcutta meeting of the All India Congress Committee (AICC) "emphatically protested against the reign of terror as well as the partition proposals relating to Palestine" and expressed the solidarity of the Indian people with the Arab peoples' struggle for national freedom. The Delhi AICC of September 1938 said in its resolution that Britain should leave the Jews and the Arabs to amicably settle the issues between the two parties, and it urged the Jews "not to take shelter behind British Imperialism."
"Famous Jewish pacifists, Martin Buber, Judah Magnes and Hayim Greenberg, who otherwise admired Gandhi, felt "highly offended by Gandhi's anti-Zionism" and criticized him for his lack of understanding of the spirit of Zionism."
"As mentioned earlier, Gandhi refused to view the Zionist "hunger" for land in Palestine as a right. Gandhi wrote on 7 January 1939 the following in response to an editorial in the Statesman, "I hold that non-violence is not merely a personal virtue. It is also a social virtue to be cultivated like the other virtues. Surely society is largely regulated by the expression of non-violence in its mutual dealing. What I ask for is an extension of it on a larger, national and international scale."
"His opposition [to Zionism] remained consistent over a period of nearly 20 years and remained firm despite skilful and varied applications to him of that combination of pressure and persuasion known as lobbying, of which the Zionists are past masters."
"In my opinion, they have erred grievously in seeking to impose themselves on Palestine with the aid of America and Britain and now with the aid of naked terrorism." http://peacepalestine.blogspot.com/2005/10/what-gandhi-had-to-say-about-zionism.html
Frankly, this sounds like a mountain being made out of a molehill. So he's Gandhi's grandson. So what? He doesn't even hold any position of authority in the Indian government or in business or in academia. He is an "activist," whatever that means.
Frankly, he's just a fool making fatuous statements, hardly a first. And no one would've paid attention but for his surname.
We can't jump on every damned idiot who says something offensive about Israel. It's time we drop this ball.
It's too bad that the comments on this anti-Israel post at Rediff are no longer there. It was 12 pages (and counting) of mostly pro-Israel Indians praising Israel and excoriating the author. Oh wait, they're still available on the internet archive. 22 Pages!
And come on, Joanne, you know how the words of fatuous creeps like this Gandhi character get misused. We've got to get it very thoroughly on the record what a boob he is at least. It's absurd, but the guy's name and bloodline actually give his words weight.
"It's absurd, but the guy's name and bloodline actually give his words weight."
Right you are.
Arun Gandhi is using the butt-end of the ad-hominem fallacy to promote an indefensible argument.
The ad-hom is attacking the character or motives of a person who has stated an idea, rather than the idea itself. The most obvious example of this fallacy is when one debater maligns the character of another debater, for example, responding not to what that someone says but to the other's character "We all know he was a liar and a cheat, so why should we believe anything he says?"
Arun is turning this on its head, by using his own name, which echoes the name of his famous saintly grandfather, to gain and build up his credibility. We all know what Gandhi stands for, so you should believe what I'm saying because I carry those Gandhi genes.. or something to this affect.
I've seen the same reaction when Tutu, or Jimmy Carter, pronounced their antisemitic canards of Israel and the Jews, for them a seamless identity. Many people responded to the accusations against them by trotting out first and foremost that both were Peace Nobelists. As such, they are beatified in a way that automatically excludes the possibility that they might be bigoted in the extreme. Their status as saints inoculated them against any suggestion that their comments were vile and defamatory.
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Left at the Washington Post site...
Btw, the world is a saner place thanks to LGF...
The worst type of a racist or bigot is not the obvious in your face one.... but subtle highbrow bigot who sneers down his nose at you like a child.... As the Northern "liberals" used to aid the 'black man' from the "bigoted Southern white man" while yet looking down at the "negro"..... we now get a full dose of Mr. Gandhi's sneering high brow bigotry while using his 'holier than though' "non-nviolence" persona for good measure...
Last time I checked the land India and Pakistan were fighting over a parcel of land not in the least crucial to either nation's survival or security. Yet India will simply not make "friends with its enemy" and perhaps "give cede the land" in the name of "peace".....
Yet Mr. Gandhi preaches to Israel and Jews worldwide about the problems Israel faces that Israel simply does not want to "embrace its enemy"..... Yes, the Arab world's mental and physical rejection/war against Israel's existence is predicated solely on land "give backs" and stubborn Israeli mindset.....
And then he has the nerve to say the "culture of violence" is led by Israel.... bcs you know the tiny country has more reporters in it per square mile than any other country in the world.....
Lest we see Darfur or India, China, Tibet, Saudi Arabia or Pakistan with the same per capita of free reporters blasting images daily.... and then compare...
Mike
I should say lets compare how many Palestinians have died due to fighting with Israel in the past 7 years with the amount of Darfurians, Tibetans, Chechnyans, India or Pakistanis, etc.... etc.....
Of course the fact that Israel is blasted front and center of every newspaper and magazine any time there is violence or Isreali response.... while far worse violence goes on daily un or underreporterd bcs it is truly dangerous or impossible (China, Russia, North Korea, Iran) for a truly "independent" reporter to report from that location.
This can be found on Peace Palestine. Is it genuine? Many pro-Palestinian sites feature the text.
What Gandhi had to say about Zionism
"The cry for the national home for the Jews does not make much appeal to me. The sanction for it is sought in the Bible and the tenacity with which the Jews have hankered after return to Palestine. Why should they not, like other peoples of the earth, make that country their home where they are born and where they earn their livelihood? Palestine belongs to the Arabs in the same sense that England belongs to the English or France to the French. It is wrong and in-human to impose the Jews on the Arabs. What is going on in Palestine today cannot be justified by any moral code of conduct. The mandates have no sanction but that of the last war. Surely it would be a crime against humanity to reduce the proud Arabs so that Palestine can be restored to the Jews partly or wholly as their national home.
The nobler course would be to insist on a just treatment of the Jews wherever they are born and bred. The Jews born in France are French in precisely the same sense that Christians born in France are French. If the Jews have no home but Palestine, will they relish the idea of being forced to leave the other parts of the world in which they are settled? Or do they want a double home where they can remain at will? This cry for the national home affords a colourable justification for the German expulsion of the Jews.
I am not defending the Arab excesses. I wish they had chosen the way of non-violence in resisting what they rightly regarded as an unwarrantable encroachment upon their country. But according to the accepted canons of right and wrong, nothing can be said against the Arab resistance in the face of overwhelming odds.
Let the Jews who claim to be the chosen race prove their title by choosing the way of non-violence for vindicating their position on earth. Every country is their home including Palestine not by aggression but by loving service. A Jewish friend has sent me a book called The Jewish Contribution to Civilization by Cecil Roth. It gives a record of what the Jews have done to enrich the world's literature, art, music, drama, science, medicine, agriculture, etc. Given the will, the Jew can refuse to be treated as the outcaste of the West, to be despised or patronized. He can command the attention and respect of the world by being man, the chosen creation of God, instead of being man who is fast sinking to the brute and forsaken by God. They can add to their many contributions the surpassing contribution of non-violent action."
SEGAON, November 20, 1938 Harijan, 26-11-1938 (Vol. 74, pp. 239-242)
http://www.gcmhp.net/File_files/Ghandi.html
Also, from "Mahatma Gandhi Rejected Zionism" by Professor A.K. Ramakrishnan
"The 1937 Calcutta meeting of the All India Congress Committee (AICC) "emphatically protested against the reign of terror as well as the partition proposals relating to Palestine" and expressed the solidarity of the Indian people with the Arab peoples' struggle for national freedom. The Delhi AICC of September 1938 said in its resolution that Britain should leave the Jews and the Arabs to amicably settle the issues between the two parties, and it urged the Jews "not to take shelter behind British Imperialism."
"Famous Jewish pacifists, Martin Buber, Judah Magnes and Hayim Greenberg, who otherwise admired Gandhi, felt "highly offended by Gandhi's anti-Zionism" and criticized him for his lack of understanding of the spirit of Zionism."
"As mentioned earlier, Gandhi refused to view the Zionist "hunger" for land in Palestine as a right. Gandhi wrote on 7 January 1939 the following in response to an editorial in the Statesman, "I hold that non-violence is not merely a personal virtue. It is also a social virtue to be cultivated like the other virtues. Surely society is largely regulated by the expression of non-violence in its mutual dealing. What I ask for is an extension of it on a larger, national and international scale."
"His opposition [to Zionism] remained consistent over a period of nearly 20 years and remained firm despite skilful and varied applications to him of that combination of pressure and persuasion known as lobbying, of which the Zionists are past masters."
"In my opinion, they have erred grievously in seeking to impose themselves on Palestine with the aid of America and Britain and now with the aid of naked terrorism."
http://peacepalestine.blogspot.com/2005/10/what-gandhi-had-to-say-about-zionism.html
Frankly, this sounds like a mountain being made out of a molehill. So he's Gandhi's grandson. So what? He doesn't even hold any position of authority in the Indian government or in business or in academia. He is an "activist," whatever that means.
Frankly, he's just a fool making fatuous statements, hardly a first. And no one would've paid attention but for his surname.
We can't jump on every damned idiot who says something offensive about Israel. It's time we drop this ball.
It's too bad that the comments on this anti-Israel post at Rediff are no longer there. It was 12 pages (and counting) of mostly pro-Israel Indians praising Israel and excoriating the author. Oh wait, they're still available on the internet archive. 22 Pages!
And come on, Joanne, you know how the words of fatuous creeps like this Gandhi character get misused. We've got to get it very thoroughly on the record what a boob he is at least. It's absurd, but the guy's name and bloodline actually give his words weight.
"It's absurd, but the guy's name and bloodline actually give his words weight."
Right you are.
Arun Gandhi is using the butt-end of the ad-hominem fallacy to promote an indefensible argument.
The ad-hom is attacking the character or motives of a person who has stated an idea, rather than the idea itself. The most obvious example of this fallacy is when one debater maligns the character of another debater, for example, responding not to what that someone says but to the other's character "We all know he was a liar and a cheat, so why should we believe anything he says?"
Arun is turning this on its head, by using his own name, which echoes the name of his famous saintly grandfather, to gain and build up his credibility. We all know what Gandhi stands for, so you should believe what I'm saying because I carry those Gandhi genes.. or something to this affect.
I've seen the same reaction when Tutu, or Jimmy Carter, pronounced their antisemitic canards of Israel and the Jews, for them a seamless identity. Many people responded to the accusations against them by trotting out first and foremost that both were Peace Nobelists. As such, they are beatified in a way that automatically excludes the possibility that they might be bigoted in the extreme. Their status as saints inoculated them against any suggestion that their comments were vile and defamatory.