What's that about statistics lying?

The figures show the infant mortality in neighboring Arab countries declining significantly, while figures for Palestinians under Israeli occupation increase slightly or remain the same. And the infant mortality for Palestinians under occupation is FOUR TIMES THE RATE FOR ISRAEL PROPER.

If you check elsewhere you will find that inside Israel, the infant mortality for its Palestinian/Arab population is DOUBLE the rate for Jews.

BTW, Gabriel is a notorious liar and racist in the pay of Israel and extremist pro-Israel organizations in the US -- as you might notice if you listen to the whole of her diatribe or check her web site.

I wouldn't expect infant mortality rates to be the same in a third world backwater as they are for their first world neighbors, nor is it a surprise that Arab statistics are lower than their Jewish neighbors, considering issues of Arab participation in Israeli life, their own cultural issues and a plethora of other reasons that account for such differences amongst class, racial, and economic communities the *world over*. The fact is, they're still BETTER than anywhere else, where the supposed horror and racism of Israeli policy and society are keeping them down. Doesn't look like they'd be doing any better if Israel weren't there. Quite the contrary.

I'm not surprised that our local eliminationist antisemite Jeff has shown up to argue that explainable differences common to humanity in general have particularly Jewish causes, however. It's characteristic of the far Left to lay blame for such differences on the successful party ('we're to blame because our health care is better than yours, even though you want nothing to do with us and in fact try your best to destroy us'), and characteristic of an antisemite to add their Jew obsession to the mix.

Brigitte Gabriel lived in a Lebanese bunker eating grass soup and crawling to get enough water to survive. I highly recommend her book: Because They Hate: A Survivor of Islamic Terror Warns America.

The suggestion that someone has a "Jew obsession" is surely ironic from the owner of this site! And "eliminationist anti-Semite"? Quite a mouthful. The only thing I am interested in eliminating is injustice and racism. And when someone raises an issue of substance the only thing Solomon can do is call names...

The infant mortality and overall health access of the Palestinians who are citizens of Israel is certainly higher than their Arab neighbors -- as reflects living in a highly developed and wealthy country, even if they are relatively impoverished and discriminated against. All the mainstream Israeli media acknowledge this.

Suggesting that they should have no complaint reminds me of the arguments for slavery and racism in the US. "Slaves" and African-Americans were said to be better off than most people in Africa. So shut up -- or go back to Africa!

As for the heroic Gabriel, the group she supports in Lebanon is The Falange. Their founder adopted the Hitler salute and a party symbol clearly referencing its German roots. You could look it up!

This didn't stop Israel from allying with these and other Fascist groups in Lebanon -- or giving them sanctuary after the Sabra/Shatilla massacres. Some of these Nazi vermin, like Gabriel, made their way to the US and earn a handsome living enthralling pro-Israel and far-Right groups with their racist anti-Arab fairly tales.

And talk about "self-hating". . . this Arab woman fantasizes that she is really a "Phoenician." By that measure the Palestinians are the Canaanites! (more on that another time. . .)

Our obsessions are differently motivated, Jeff. If you were really interesting in eliminating "injustice and racism" you could work to do so everywhere, not by starting with dismantling the region's most liberal and human rights respecting nation. Your choices expose you.

What exactly does motivate your obsessions, I wonder? As for me, you know nothing about my beliefs or activities other than what you fantasize. My primary focus on justice has been right here where I live.

As for the rest of the world, I can only work to prevent my country from making things worse. Maybe some of you are incapable of walking and chewing gum at the same time. Not me.

Israel is not the only -- or even the worst -- human rights violator in the world. Just the only one to receive $3billion a year in US direct military aid and untold billions more in tax-deductible "charitable" contributions.

And when US weapons are used to enforce an illegal occupation and to bomb and kill Palestinians or Lebanese it's not just wrong -- it make me and everyone in my country less safe.

But, oh, I forgot: saying that makes me an "anti-Semite" -- and an "eliminationist" one at that. . .

About that American aid to Israel. Arabs in the Middle East receive over that much mentioned 3 billion in the US aid every year (just add US aid to Egypt, Jordan and Palestinian Authority), all while Lebanese Hezbullah and Palestinian Fatah/Hamas/PFLP murdered hundreds of Americans.

Jew-haters and American-haters are simply frustrated with the US-Israel alliance and shared democratic values.

Are you still enjoying sharing with your comrades Karin Maria Friedemann's Antisemitic 'world view news service' rantings, Jeff? Is she, along with her hubby Joachim, also working on the same 'justice' in your shared Dorchester neighborhood?

Aid to Israel -- a relatively small and rich country compared to its neighbors -- is still larger than the three you named combined (and on much better terms). A good portion of the aid to Egypt, Jordan and the Palestinians is for economic aid, which I don't oppose to those people or countries in need.

I am against arms transfers to any country in the Middle East, since they are wasteful and destabilizing. That includes Saudi Arabia and the Gulf States -- who, it must be said, at least pay for it.

Oh yes, everyone who doesn't like what Israel does is a "Jew Hater" And everyone who supports Israel -- no matter how really Antisemitic they are -- must "love" the Jews. It doesn't get much more loony and self-destructive than that...

Is Jeff Klein outraged over the billions of AFTER TAX dollars the entire World pays to the OPEC paymasters for $101 per barrel oil?

Is Jeff Klein outraged over HIS OCCUPATION of Native American land in North America?

Which country will Jeff Klein relocate to?

Which country will accept Jeff Klein?

Is Jeff Klein outraged over the Arab/Muslim massacre of the Arab Christian village of Damour Lebanon of 1/20/76?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damour_massacre

Is Jeff Klein outraged over CURRENT DAY SLAVERY in Muslim Sudan?

Is Jeff Klein outraged over the Islamofascist truck bombing of the WTC of February 26, 1993?

Is Jeff Klein outraged over the Islamofascist SNEAK ATTACK of 9/11/2001?

@ Jeff Klein

"The infant mortality and overall health access of the Palestinians who are citizens of Israel is certainly higher than their Arab neighbors"

So it must be really easy for you to produce thousands of israeli statistics that prove your point. Or are you just lying make the israelis look bad?

When I look at your first comment, then I see that you have problems to think straight. The upper case phrases (that are most important to you) don't tell anything. If you want to compare muslim issues, you have to compare between islamic countries. A cross culture comparison does not make any sense, unless you want to prove that the islamic culture is not as good as the christian or jewish. As you claim above, it is at least four times worth as the jewish culture when it comes to medicine. One reason for this is the bad hygiene due to religious rules. You can't put this up against israel.

Start to think for yourself! I'm not always here to help you find your mistakes.

@ #8 Eddie at: February 28, 2008 12:56 AM

You can list any of the countries where Christians are persecuted:

http://www.opendoorsuk.org/wwl_profiles/intro.php

Most of them are islamic and do this in the name of the Qu'ran. The rest are socialistic countries. India and Mexico are the only exceptions - in Ethiopia the prosecution is in islamic regions.

Those Christians would be more than happy, if they were treated as well as the Palestinians are treated by the Israelis!

But for people like Jeff Klein, this is not important.

Have just one quick look how "nice" the palestinian Muslems are to their minorities:

http://www.persecution.org/suffering/countryinfodetail.php?countrycode=36

And they aren't even one of the top persecutors of Christians.

Sol, you are correct about the cultural and societal differences affecting the quality of life in any society.

A little known fact is that the Israeli census shows that the Christian Israeli Arabs have the highest standard of living in Israel, higher than that of the Israeli Jews as a whole. Not coincidently, these Christian Arabs also have the lowest birth rates and the highest educational levels in the country. On the other hand, Jewish Haredim and Muslim Israeli Arabs have many similarities in their economic indicators.

Of cause you will not hear this from the Palestinian 'solidarity' activists as it does not fit their propaganda narrative.

Chana,

I find it impossible to believe that Christian Palestinians inside Israel have the "highest standard of living." Maybe you could give a source? I have no doubt that the income and health statistics for Christian Palestinians is higher than for Muslims as a group both inside Israel and in the Occupied Territories - for a variety of social and historical reasons.

On the other hand, speaking of information which does not "fit" someone's historical narrative: many of the leaders of the Palestinian national movement are and have been Christians. Hanna Ashrawi, Edward Said, George Habash (!). Among the Palestinians elected to the Israeli Knesset are at least two Christians: Hanna Sweid and Azmi Bishara (gasp!)

Incidentally, the first modern nationalist newspaper in Palestine was founded by a Greek Orthodox man in Jaffa, Issa al-Issa (or Jesus the son of Jesus) -- in 1911, when according to Zionist mythology it was "a land without a people." It was called "Al Falastin"

Jeff forgot to mention that the assassin of Senator Robert F. Kennedy is another so-called "palestinian" Christian.

sirhan fits in with george habash and the palestinian Medusa hanan ashrawi.

Apropos, "Maybe you could give a source?", I'm still waiting for your sources, Jeff.

(Just kidding! I know that they won't come.)

By the way: Switching topics is a good trick!
I wonder where you antisemits always get your ideas from?
So why don't you care about the endless wars in Africa?
Why don't you care about Chinese oppressions?
Why don't you care about the persecution of Christians and Jews in islamic Countries?
Why don't you care about huge organized crime, prostitution and drug cartel in Countries like Mexico?
Why don't you care about the oppressive Hindu caste-culture in India?

Why don't you care about all those places where blood flows nonstop.

Is this because you wouldn't fight against Jews?

"Palestinian national movement"

This is a joke, isn't it?
When Palestinians indoctrinate their children to not only conquer Israel by all means, but also Andalusia (a part of Spain), you call it "national movement?
Have a look at a world map to get a clue what you are talking about!

http://jihadwatch.org/archives/009611.php

This is not about nationality!
This is about religion!
Read the Qu'ran!
And the Sunnah!

As to "Truth":

That's why I said the prominence of Christian leaders in the Palestinian national movement does not "fit" some people's fantasy narrative.

Infant Mortality Statistics
(from a quick Google):

http://www.unicef.org/infobycountry/oPt.html

http://www.unicef.org/infobycountry/israel.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_citizens_of_Israel#Health
(with sources)

"Due largely to improvements in health care, the infant mortality rate for Arabs, dropped from 32 deaths per thousand births in 1970 to 8.6 per thousand in 2000.[146] In 2003, the infant mortality rate in the Arab sector was 8.4 per thousand, more than twice as high as the rate 3.6 per thousand among the Jewish population.[147] [. . .]
In the 2002 budget, Israel's health ministry allocated 1.6 m shekels (£200,000) to Arab communities out of its 277 m-shekel (£35m) budget to develop healthcare facilities.[149]"

Infant mortality rates are one indicator of the health of a nation. For all the hue and cry about the suffering of the Palestinians, their statistics simply don't document any severe degree of health degradation. Life expectancy, literacy rates, education rates, etc. confirm that it is the proximity to Israel that has improved all of these statistics for the Palestinians. Look especially at stats from 1967 - 1994. Unemployment dropped from 40% to 5%.PA GNP grew 13% annually. Obviously, the Palestinian Authority holds some responsibility for its administration of over 95% of the Palestinian people for the past 14 years.

Blaming Israel a people whose state-of-the-art healthcare and medical advances are shared with the world, for Palestinian suffering takes a lot of nerve.

If the Palestinians are suffering now, it is because they have chosen war and not peace, chosen leaders who have announced that their goal is the destruction of Israel, and because they have failed to stand up en masse and stop the jihadists and the Jew-haters of the Arab world.

This is quite belated, but I actually burst out laughing when Solomon criticized Jeff for prejudice when HE was the one suggesting a piece of propaganda. Or do you really expect an unbiased view for a book entitled "Because They Hate Us"? Have you considered that they may hate us because we want everyone to believe that they're evil terrorists?

Just because discrimination against Muslims doesn't have a title doesn't make it any better than anti-Semitism. Prejudice is prejudice.

Ugh, sorry, it seems there was no 'us' in that title. I was thinking about different propaganda.

But heck, that makes it even better. Now you want to claim that THEY hate, when you yourself hate ALL of them.

It's like my favorite Palestinian claim, that of ethnic cleansing...

How is it that a population being ethnically cleansed by the strongest military in the region also have the highest growth rate (1 of the highest growth rates in the world)

Apparently the Jewish Conspiracy to take over the world has blundered on this one. Quick, quick, passover is coming, round up some more children, we don't have enough blood to make this years quota of Matzah... (sarcasm)...

I fear this revisionist history is slowly becoming 'accepted fact' (what...fact has to be true? what planet are you living on?!). It is a part of the overall war which Israel has absolutely ignored. It is absolutely essential that this misinformation be confronted now. If only Israelis were as comfortable flouting their dead as their Arab cousins. Alas, we live in a world of sound bytes and vignittes, 'tis the only language the attention-deficit-&-disordered world understands.

BTW: Jeff, the Saudis and Egyptians do not pay for their arms. On the contrary, these are the type of loans which go unpaid for...ever...

On the other hand, for the US investment in Israel it gets a huge RETURN ON INVESTMENT. Drip irrigation, Intel MMX, the Cell Phone (motrolla Israel did the development), Windows NT, the Firewall, ICQ, AntiVirus - this is what the world gets from Israel. This is not to mention that billions dollars worth of know-how sharing. Joint Israeli-American projects and/or one-way-information transference more than pays for the 2-3 billion a year that goes to Israel for military aid.

From the Arrow2 and Oren Yarok Radar(the only reliable anti-ballistic missle system in the world today), to the various improvements made to F16, the Patriot2 and the various anti-missle/anti-mortar systems, the USA gets more than its monies worth (btw: the first patriot was a huge failure, as anyone in the Persian Gulf or Israel at the time will attest to, the Israelis reworked the Patriot into a semi-usable state, the precursor to the new Patriot)...

BESIDES ALL OF THIS:
AMERICA PROVIDES ISRAEL WITH AID BECAUSE THEY ARE ALLIES IN THE SAME WAR. THIS IS THE WAR AGAINST INTERNATIONAL PAN ISLAMISM.

HAVE YOU READ YOUR KURAN LATELY, if not visit my blog... As a non-Muslim you are a target, it doesn't matter if you agree with them for you are living within the ABODE OF WAR (which must be turned into the ABODE OF ISLAM, and if you survive you will be Dhimmified).

Before replying, read all of Sura 2, Sura 5 and Sura 9... Then ponder on whether this conflict has anything to do with land.

And to conclude, if you haven't already guessed it, this has NOTHING TO DO WITH LAND.

Barake and Clinton offered Arafat 100% of Gaza, 97% of WB, 100% of East Jerusalem, 3-5% of Israel proper - HE REJECTED IT AND BEGAN THE 2nD INTIFADAH! WORST STILL: HIS PEOPLE DIDN"T DEMAND ANYTHING FROM HIM! THEY SUPPORTED IT. For a people so willing to strap bombs to themselves, wouldn't this be a cause worth killing for? (the land they all say they want?!)

In 2000 the IDF left Lebanon, Hezbollah moved into the IDF positions, and used them as stage to attack israel...

ANd My favorite - GAZA - there is not ONE JEW there today. EVEN THE GRAVES WERE MOVED.
Israel's reward? 7000 ROCKETS. Not 1 aimed at military installations, all at civilian areas.

If you didn't learn your lesson at Oslo (Israeli concessions lead to rocks turning into guns turning into suicide bombs) then you've had ample time since...

BTW: This is all coming from an X-Red flag waving son of a northern Kibbutz... We were FERVENT LEFTISTS, we were bloody inclusionist Marxists for G*d sake... It was the first time in world history when the victor, the strongman, offered concession to the weak... But they spat in our faces.

NEVER AGAIN.

Life expectancy among the Palestinian arabs (who, according to some people here, are dying like flies under the “ruthless Israeli occupation): 75.35 years
In Saudi Arabia (without this “ruthless Israeli occupation”) – 70 years.
in Egypt ,(also without any “ruthless Israeli occupation”), it is only 60 years
in Syria (to the misfortune of the Syrians, Israel is not occupying this poor country ,this is why it is still poor) , it is 66 years