Saturday, August 16, 2008
An email piece by Yoram Ettinger, in full:
1. Over 100 million refugees have been created by wars since the end of WW2.
2. 79 million refugees were created during 1933-1945.
3. 15 Million Hindus, Sikhs (8.5MN) and Muslims (6.5MN) were displaced, in 1947, in order to reshape British India into India and Pakistan.
4. A Greek-Turk population exchange of 2 million refugees was codified by the 1923 Treaty of Lausanne, following the 1919-22 Greco-Turkish War.
5. Millions became refugees in Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia - as a result of ruthless regimes - following US withdrawal.
6. A population transfer of millions occurred among USSR and Hungary, Poland and Czechoslovakia, Bulgaria and Romania, Greece-Bulgaria, Denmark-Germany, etc.
7. 300,000 Palestinians were expelled from Kuwait, due to PLO's collaboration with the 1990 Iraqi invasion of Kuwait.
8. 800,000 Yemenites were expelled from Saudi Arabia, due to Yemen's support of the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait.
9. Over 500,000 Christians fled Lebanon as a result of a series of civil war ignited by PLO and Syrian occupation.
10. 10,000 PLO members were killed and thousands of Palestinians expelled from Jordan, due to PLO terrorism and attempts to topple the Hashemite regime.
11. The UN High Commission for Refugees (UNHCR) handles all refugees, except Israeli-related Palestinians...
12. UNRWA - the largest UN agency (25,000 employees) - handles only Israel-related Palestinian refugees.
13. Unlike global refugees, Palestinian refugees are defined as any Arab who was in Palestine two years before the 1948/9 War...
14. Unlike UNHCR, UNRWA covers all descendants, without generational limitation.
15. Unlike UNHCR, UNRWA perpetuates - and does not resettle - Palestinian refugees. While UNHCR is rewarded for sharply reducing the number of global refugees, UNRWA has been rewarded for perpetuating the status - and significantly inflating the number - of Israel-related Palestinian refugees.
16. In contrast with the mega-million myth, the total number of 1948/9 Palestinian refugees was 320,000. 800,000 Arabs resided within the "Green Line" before the 1948/9 War. 170,000 Arabs remained in Israel following the war. An additional 100,000 were absorbed by Israel. Moreover, 100,000 middle and upper class Arabs were absorbed by neighboring Arab states. Also, 50,000 migrant laborers returned to their states. 50,000 Bedouins joined Jordan and Sinai tribes. 10,000-15,000 were war fatalities. Total refugees = 320,000.
17. 820,000 Jews were expelled from Arab countries, following the establishment of the Jewish State. 600,000 were absorbed by Israel and the rest resettled in other non-Arab countries.
For further data, please read "The Claim of Dispossession" by Arieh Avneri, Herzl Press, NY, 1980 and "From Time Immemorial" by Joan Peters, Harper & Row, NY, 1984.
Well now that they know - surely they'll apologize!
320,000 refugees? Interesting, but the figure is so low that it invites skepticism. What is the source or evidence for this figure? Mind you, I hope this figure is right, but I don't want to be swayed by wishful thinking.
Its wierd, but how many palestenians were expelled by israel after reading this artical?
its either kuwite expelled palestenians, or jordan expelled, and all that we see is that israel absorbed a couple of thousand, so did kuwait and jordan occupy palestain?
by the way kuwait and jordan and saudia didnt expell palestenians or yamanites, they were deported legaly or their residancy didnt get renewed. its a totally diffrent case.
Its hard to know exactly how many refugees there were because (sorry) then as now, they lied.
Faris el Khoury- Syrian representative to the UN said 250,000 in 5/48.
Emil Ghoury said 200,000 by 9/48
Folke Bernadotte said 300,000 by 9/48
Red Cross said 350,000 by 2/49
UN estimates 750,000 in total by 1948, and 1,000,000 by 7/49
Nice to know we can count on arabian for a good laugh. As usual, he ignores the substance of the article and tries to discredit it with specious objections.
A fine example of arabian's typical, barely literate nonsense. Is this a real question -- How many Palestinians did Israel expel after reading this article? It doesn't matter whether by Israel arabian is referring to the government, the Post-Zionist, effete intellectualsnobselites or the majority of Israeli citizens. The answer is zero. (With apologies to William Safire and Spiro T. Agnew.)No, but so what? Neither did Israel, or more properly, the Zionists or the Jooz. They have every right to be there. Arabian forgets (a) the charter of the British Mandate for Palestine. Something about the Jews and their national homeland in Palestine. (b) Arabian also forgets the 1947 UN resolution that called for partitioning the 22% that was left of Palestine into both a Jewish state and a second Arab state in Palestine (The Brits had already given about 78% of the Mandate away to the Hashemite clan in payment of a pledge made by T.E. Lawrence when he enlisted their help in fighting the Turks in WWI). Arabian also conveniently forgets (c) that it wasn't until after pan-Arab attempts to destroy Israel and push the Jews into the sea (i.e, Arab wet-dreams of genocidal murder of the Jews) failed again in 1967 -- failed spectacularly, that time -- the term Palestinians referred to the Jews of the Yishuv. The Arabs insisted to the UN in the 1950s that there were no Palestinians, that the very term was a bogus neologism made up by the Zionists, that the Arabs in Palestine were, in fact Syrian.
The current propaganda that the Arab Palestinians are an ancient people who have lived in Palestine since time immemorial is a huge whopper of a lie. Never mind how dramatically the Arab population of Palestine grew as Arabs from neighboring lands were drawn there because of the economic opportunities and access to modern medicine the Yishuv provided. (In other words, most of the "refugees" came to Palestine after the Zionists drained the swamps, after the Jews introduced modern citrus cultivation to the region. Arabian also forgets that there has been a continuous Jewish presence in Palestine since long before the Roman exile, millenia, in fact, before the Arab conquest or even before their accursed camel-f**king prophet was toilet-trained.
Gotta love the brazenness of arabian's lies and distortions. If I read that right, when the East Bank's King Hussein killed some 10,000 "Palestinians" and expelled the rest if the PLO and their followers in the Black September operation, the departure of those Palestian Arabs from the Arab Palestinian state was just a matter of genteel attrition as their residency permits expired. The East Bank king's soldiers didn't massacre the Palestinians [sic]; his bureaucrats just forgot to stamp their papers. No doubt the Kuwaitis were equally civil in 1991 after the Palis rallied behind Saddam after his invasion. (Silly me, I keep forgetting just how peaceful and idyllic life is in the "civilization" of clashes.)
Sheesh!
First, we should agree not to mock someone for bad English. We'd be at a similar disadvantage in another language, assuming we even spoke another language.
That said, I agree that Arabian's points are unconvincing, even allowing for the fact that his English isn't very literate.
I agree with some of what Nappy wrote, but I don't know if she's totally correct. From what I understand, the figures as to how many Arabs had been living in Palestine for centuries and how many arrived around the time the Jews did are vague. There are no definitive records, I've read, and the new arrivals may be a minority of the Arabs living there at the time of partition.
Also, we like to remind ourselves that the Jews were the majority of the residents of Jerusalem. That's true, though they were not an overwhelming majority. But at one point...was it early in the 20th century?...the Arabs were 90% of the residents of Palestine as a whole. How many of these were new arrivals or Bedouin transients? I don't know.
One interesting thing I did read was that, after 1948, UNRWA permitted anyone to call himself a Palestinian who had been living in Palestine for a minimum of two years. Not two generations, mind you, but just 24 months.
Were my sources accurate? I couldn't say. I got these bits of information off the Internet a few years ago, and I didn't save the documents. Apparently, Ottoman records were scanty, which is why both sides can argue that the other side is lying.
Nap,
Make your point and leave out the racist comments.
"or even before their accursed camel-f**king prophet was toilet-trained."
It makes you look small-minded.
There is an excellent book by Ziff, "The Rape of Palestine", written in 1936. 90, count 'em, 90 pages of footnotes. He states
"We should expect to find an exodus of Arabs from lands where Jews are settled. But exactly the opposite is true: it is precisely in the vicinity of those Jewish villages that Arab development is most marked. Arab Haifa, profiting from the Jewish boom grew from 1922 to 1936 by 130%, Jaffa by 80% and Jerusalem by 55%...In the vicinity of the Jewish villages Arab workers earn twice the wage paid in other parts of Palestine.
Once the poorest , sorriest population in this whole section of poverty stricken masses, the Arabs of Palestine are now the richest per capita of their race"
and
"Fully 75% of the area in Jewish hands morever has not known the plough for centuries. The northern colonies in Galilee were built on land rendered impossible for life since roman times because of marsh and endemic disease. Tel Aviv was erected on sand dunes which were considered without monetary value. The great granary, the valley of Jezreel, now nestling so trim and green in the shining sun, was so deserted and pestilential when Jews bought it that it was said any bird trying to cross it would fall dead in its flight."
"Were my sources accurate?"
"WHO IS A PALESTINE REFUGEE?
"Under UNRWA's operational definition, Palestine refugees are persons whose normal place of residence was Palestine between June 1946 and May 1948, who lost both their homes and means of livelihood as a result of the 1948 Arab-Israeli conflict. UNRWA's services are available to all those living in its area of operations who meet this definition, who are registered with the Agency and who need assistance. UNRWA's definition of a refugee also covers the descendants of persons who became refugees in 1948. The number of registered Palestine refugees has subsequently grown from 914,000 in 1950 to more than 4.6 million in 2008, and continues to rise due to natural population growth."
http://www.un.org/unrwa/refugees/whois.html
Noga
Another useless drive-by comment from Brother Daoud. Notice how he focuses on superficialities and has nothing to say about the substance. David totally ignores the thrust of Yoram Ettinger's article and my deconstruction of Arabian's bullshit.
So, David, how do you account for the fact that "Palestinian" refugees have a unique status that doesn't apply to any other refugees, that of the millions of people dislocated in the late 1940s, only one group has not been resettled. Does it have anything to do with their Arab brethren's using them as political pawns and keeping them in squalid "refugee camps," so called. (60 years on, they're not hastily erected tent cities but real cities, with plumbing, sewage and electricity.)
Strike the offensive adjectival phrase you quoted from before "prophet" and deal with the content of Yoram Ettinger's article and my comment.
If you really want dialogue, something I genuinely doubt, try saying something that reflects some thought. That would be a welcome change. Since you brought up being small-minded, you're the expert; your comments here reflect your authority on small-mindedness.
Joanne,
1. Your point about arabian's lack of facility in English is well-taken. It would be nice if he used a spell-checker or at least mimiced the spelling in the posts he responds to' His "creative spelling" drives me nuts. If the problem with his comments were just a matter of language (bad spelling, bad grammar and poor usage), it would be easy to overlook. However, the dissembling, the feeble attempts at propaganda and the outright lies are too much to take.
Saying that his arguments are unconvincing is a huge understatement and give him more credit than he deserves.
2. Noga's already cited the source of the UN's special definition of Palestinian refugee. It's unique. In no other case in history anywhere on this planet is refugee status conferred by inheritance on the children, grandchildren and great-grandchildren of those who were dislocated by disaster or political turmoil. As a matter of their own job security, UNWRA is committed to the continued misery of the "refugees" they're supposed to look after. The last thing they want is for them to be resettled.
3. While I can't cite the sources off-hand, I've read in several places that Jews were a plurality in Jerusalem from about 1848 and the majority from the 1870s. Overcrowding in the Old City was one reason that Jerusalem's Jews gave a cold shoulder to the Yememite Jews who came overland in the 1880s. (Xenophobia undoubtedly played a role too. The Yememites didn't speak Yiddish (it would be decades before Eliezer ben Yehudah lead the revival of Hebrew as a spoken language), they dressed funny, they prayed in a strange dialect of Hebrew and they had their own nusah and customs.)
The unwelcome Yemenites moved into abandoned burial caves carved into the rock of the hill opposite today's Ir David (King David's City) archaeological dig and overlooking the Shiloam pools, from which their newly established village took its name. Shiloam was lost in 1948. Today, the Arabs claim that Silwan, an Arabization of Shiloam, is part of their ancient patrimony. Not only that, but this little bit of East Jerusalem has been a breeding ground for terrorists. Caroline Glick writes that Silwan's Hamas cell was one of the most prolific and murderous cells in Israel, being responsible for the massacres at Hebrew U's Frank Sinatra Cafeteria, Jerusalem's Moment Café and Rishon leTziyon's billiards club among others acts of terror, including a botched attempt in May, 2oo2 to kill thousands in Pi Gilot.
The number of registered Palestine refugees has subsequently grown from 914,000 in 1950 to more than 4.6 million in 2008, and continues to rise due to natural population growth."
Dang- those incompetant israelis are doing a terrible job with their ethnic cleansing.
Nap,
Your post could have begun and ended with "Strike the offensive adjectival phrase".
I do have a problem with racist comments and will call you out on them if I see them.
I see we're back to the "brother Daoud" schtick again.
nappy headed ho:
if your happy by how comparisions is made between expelled people from diffrent nations and palestenians, then let it be to the holocaust also, we whant comparisoins without bieng called anti-semites, like what happen to polish church representives.
and yes jews are the chose people and thats their land and the rest of the world are terorists or anti-semites and should wait for "the red cow" .
tell me do you believe also that you should be put in a quarantine for 1 week if you touched a women?
I dont blame you I blame the WJC after mirdoch bought it and the media that pampers you and gives you all the "we are sorry" .
as for me and all arabs we look at real data only, so dont be angry when I said that saudia and kuwiat and jordan or soverighn countries and they have the right to deport for any security reasons, but israel or the filthy british dont have the right to expell a single palestenian. thats the hard fact.
by the way, I passed by many articals and books of: sea people , beduins, land without people, but I am soory I dont believe them, you can beliebe them becaucause they make you relaxed .
as for the prophet insult,""""Hatred has already appeared from their mouths, but what their breasts conceal is far worse. Indeed We have made plain to you the Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses) if you understand. """
inslut because you and people like you live on insluting islam and the arab culture and saudia, without it your in a bobooo.
with respect to all jews " that religous jews and christians dont pay jezya by the way"
sorry I am mistaken in most may previous post but the part about saudia and kuiwat and jordan I stick to them because they dont belong Yoram Ettinger list, they belong to deported peoples list.
believe I have already voiced my position here that we should all be grateful to Arabian for coming to post here. He allows us a peek into the kind of unfathomable Arab logic that is hermetically insular to any interference of facts or rationality with its own unfalsifiable "truths". One theory faults the ARabic language for being incapable of questioning:
[i]"It is the simple fact that learning to speak Arabic is actually quite stressful.
Why should this be? It’s just a language, right? Yes and no.
It’s not like European languages, which are basically verbal ways to convey information on who did what, where, when, how and why. It appears to me that having developed in an environment that prohibits any sort of critical thought, especially in the fields of religion and politics, Arabic has become a means to avoid dealing with difficult issues.
In some Arabic-speaking countries, asking ‘how’ and ‘why’ can get you imprisoned. Therefore the more skilled you are at it, the better you are at avoidance by using ever bigger words and ever more flowery metaphors. In the end it just becomes one big exercise in denial."[/i]
http://www.hurryupharry.org/2008/08/03/avoiding-the-issue-part-2/
OK, Nappy, thanks for responding; you made some interesting points.
Arabian: "the red cow"? Whaaaaa?
If you have something worthwhile to say, why don't you speak up? My sense is that you hang out here to heckle us. Let's face it. Your mind is closed, so there's no point in our trying to confuse you with the facts. We're not going to change your mind anymore than you're going to change ours -- all the more so if you don't contribute anything worth thinking about.
The Torah describes a purification ritual for those who are ritually impure, which today is everyone. It involves sacrificing a totally red heifer, burning it and applying a mixture of the ashes and water. There was a lot of excitement at K'far Chabad in Israel a few years ago when they thought they had a red heifer but on closer inspection found it had some white hairs.
Arabian also talks about a man's becoming impure for a week after contact with a woman. I have no clue what he's referring to, unless it bespeaks a really perverted, twisted and confused, to put it as charitably as I can, understanding of Nidah and the laws of family purity. Whatever wackiness he's talking about, I'll be it's not as much fun as female genital mutilation, honor killings or any of the many other ways misogynist Muslims and Arabs oppress women. In Egypt, for example, the illiteracy rate, which is high anyway, is much worse for women. Why do women need an education, anyway?
Nap,
You posts give no indication of wanting anything more than a place to rant and minimize.
And again, I will call you out if I see you posting racist comments. Not about being PC.
Nice inclusion of a vegetarian comment. It's a new line. It worked well coupled with the old "communist" standby.
Yeah, right. (Who says two positives don't make a negative?) Next you'll be wanting to sell Nappy a bridge. So, dear Comrade David, if not for Political Correctness, how else do you account for the vast changes in the American cultural landscape in Nappy's lifetime or the new limitations on acceptable speech? For all Nappy knows, you're a young pup still wet behind the ears -- and to the extent that you've actually expressed opinions here, it sure sounds that way -- so Nappy doesn't expect you to remember some of what these my childhood recollections:- Popular, entertaining TV shows like I Remember Mama and Amos 'n Andy, shows that couldn't be aired today because they relied heavily on ethnic and racial stereotypes. By the way, Amos 'n Andy may have started out as a radio show by two white actors (Charles Correll and Freeman Gosden), but the warm and endearing early 1950s TV show featured
- Cartoons like Hekyl and Jekyl about two sassy crows. Black, doncha know.
- Though produced before Nappy's time as shorts for movie theaters, Spanky and the Gang episodes were still aired on TV.
- Likewise with the Marx Brothers' movies, could anyone get away with Chico's cartoonish Italian immigrant stereotype today?
- Lots of classic Disney movies were revived and put out on VHS and then DVD, but for many, many years now, Song of the South has been taboo. Ol' Uncle Walt sho 'nuff done locked it up in da vault and throwed away da key. Yes, sir. (Could it be something about the slaves being happy darkies singing on their way home from the cotton fields, or the Uncle Remus character?) Someday, Nappy would like to read Joel Chandler Harris's 1881 book Uncle Remus. The little Nappy's somehow missed it as bedtime stories; maybe when the grandkids come along.
And let's not get into the propaganda cartoons Warner Brothers made during the war. Nappy once downloaded a classic one with either Bugs Bunny or Daffy Duck single-handedly taking on some buck-toothed, slanty-eyed Japs with their round eyeglasses. Do you get the picture?coloredOK,Negroall right Afro-Am actors who were happy to get the work.Comrade, it sho is might gracious of you to offer your services as Nappy's PC monitor, but Ol' Nappy will get along just fine without you. An' dat's da troof! Yes, sir.
Zippity-doo-dah. My, oh my. Have a wonderful day.
Ok its good that peeking is through me not through FOx news or WSJ.
anyways the satire about arabic language, its hard because there are diffrent sounds in arabic that are not present in latin languages.
so overcoming this obstical and learning how to pronounce the sounds will make arabic language very easy. (so abvious)
on the other hand yes asking why and how is not possible in all fields, and this is because we have morons ruling many arabic countries. but hey they are americas pupits so they are good. but on the other hand because of that arabic nations suffer. so who to blame. blame arabs and islam!
I will take this accusation, but on the other hand many people who ask how and why get false information and are mislead. so its a drawback on both sides.
also the problems in arab countries, if I want to take it to the extent that the writer of this satire wants to take it, is not only because people cant ask why, its also because there are countries which are filled with lust and hunger that caused many problems in this part of the world, in they brought with them other problems along with economic lust.
so I will take accusing arabs of bieng backward and all bad things for granted , (because they cant ask why and they dont respect women and they dont have a democracy dadadadadadada......)but only if you look at it from both sides, its not our fault only.
and by the way, this is my satire,
when arabic countries respect there nations and develope nuclear deterrent, arabic will be much easier.
++++++++++++++
Nap,
Schtick...nothing but.
Daoud,
Taqiyya and hypocrisy... nothing less.
Eddie,
David is spelled D-A-V-I-D...your English teacher should be fired.
Daoud,
Your red diaper doper baby teacher should have been fired.
BTW, whay will you do when Obama loses the election?