That video is not promoting hate or anything. It basically shows the things that happened since Israel was created in 1948. Peace is true, but we can't deny the truth of Israel. Showing the truth of Israel does not mean being offensive to someone. Plus, Israel is giving a bad view of the religion of Judaisn. Zionists have hijacked it.
And, Israel is not willing to have peace. A peace will start after the two state solution, and for the 2 state solution to begin, Israel needs to stop making illegal settlements on the Palestinian territories. Israel is willing to make 900 new homes on the Palestinian territories, this was on the news couple of days ago.
Peace doesn't mean anything to Israel.
I hope one day, Jews, Arabs and Chrisitians will all unite to end the occupation and free Palestine.

Thanks for the post.

Al Cud,

You are saying that al qada, islamofascism, islamoimperialism, ham-ass, hezbullah (and their outstretched nazi salutes), islamofascist regime of iran, honor killings, islamic child sacrifice, current day slavery in sudan, the bombings in londonistan, Bali, Madrid, destruction of the 1,500 year old Buddahs in Bamiyan Afghanistan, Mumbai massacre, Beslan school massacre, somali pirates, hijackers, cartoons of your false prophet muhammad riots, suicide bombers in iraq, 8 year iraq/iran war, the recently executed Beltway sniper john muhammed (there's that EVIL name muhammed again), failed sneaker bomber, 1993 bombing of the WTC (you blind sheik will DIE in a US prison),

all DON'T portray islam as a savage, barbaric, death worshipping cult?

I don't believe you Al Cuds. We know about taqiyya. Your fellow savages can have europe (except for Denmark and the Czech Republic). Gorge yourself on europe. europe is a lost cause. anyway.

The USA will NEVER surrender to your death cult. cair can whine all it wants, the USA will defeat you swine.

AND if the US or India or Israel suffer a nuke attack, expect mecca/makka and the kabba to be completely destroyed in retalition.

INSHALLAH!!

Eddie:

This guy is baiting you into making outrageous statements.

You're talking genocide.

You need to stop.

Dexter, I don't mind responding to islamofascist threats, in kind.

I wish people would stomp on and shred, burn, flags of the islamofascist regime of iran, paleSWINE, saudi arabia, pakiSHtan.

It's only fairplay.

WW2 wasn't won by "negotiating" a "hudna" ceasefire.

islamofascists need to be reminded that they face a terrible response to an islamofascist WMD attack.

Why should anyone be more respectful of islamofascism than they are of "infidels", "kaffirs/kuffars"?

To the posters before you I say...

"F", "F" paleSWINE 4 Ever!

P.S. "F" is NOT "Free"

islamofascism".

"F" "F" PaleSWINE!

haha nice ones. You really cracked me up. Show me more!

I totally understand your hate and your jealousy. It's aight. It's okay Be happy even though what you wish will never happen.

Say whatever you want, believe whatever you want. Who gives a shit? People follow facts thank God. And the fact is:
Israel was CREATED
CREATED
CREATED
CREATED
CREATED
CREATED
in 1948.
Also, do a favor for yourself, and type on google: "israel is a" and see the results you will get. You will be stunned maaaan ;)

It's true that (modern) Israel was created in 1948.

So what?

That doesn't obviate the fact that several thousand years of Jewish history are centered there and in Jerusalem, long predating the creation of Christianity and Islam, Rome and Greece.

The creation of modern Israel in 1948 doesn't change the fact that Jews have lived in the land of Israel for thousands of years or that the state of Israel was built - ok created - by the hard work and sacrifice of its people and defended from repeated attack by the loss of thousands and thousands of lives.

Also a fact: Israel was created by the UN, it is probably the most "legal" state in the world - as well as the rebirth of one of the most ancient.

Most other states have evolved not legally but from acts of conquest or war, genocide or simply by accident. It's time people respected this.

And, it's also notable that Pakistan and many other Muslim states were also created, some were liberated by the British from the Ottoman Empire, others like Pakistan and Bangladesh were partitioned from India, etc.

Israel is not unique in this respect. If we respect the states of Pakistan, Bangladesh, Lebanon, Syria, Saudi Arabia and Iraq then we should equally respect the state of Israel, isn't that so?

And, apart from the immorality of the constant attacks against Israel and the Israeli people, who are human beings too sir - these constant attempts to claim the state is illegitimate or otherwise undermine it are totally bogus. They will lead to nothing but more tragedy. Instead why not try to create something?

That said I'm not down with the ugly comments about Islam and Palestinians.

Really there's no need for all this hate. Don't we share the same history, the same God and - many of us are related to each other. We are literally cousins if not brothers and sisters. So - apologies.

ISRAEL IS A TERRORIST STATE.
END THE ISRAELI OCCUPATION
FREE PALESTINE FROM TERRORIST ZIONISTS.

Face it man, and yeah, I know "F" doesn't stand for free. Why don't you go "F" yourself (wherever the F stands for) and feel better. You won't feel the hate anymore.

Eric,

You accurately made yourself look stupid, while proving the problem of imperialism. Yes carving states is not something I promote, but occupation is imprisonment and will always lead to violence and, in this case, ultimately to the downfall of Israel.

And Islam is a religion that can be used to harm in the same way that Jewish terrorist harm ppl in the name of religion. And I know of a number of Palestinian Christians, Jewish Israelis, American Jewish people, that flatly call Israel a jewish state that is not good for the Jewish ppl and breeds antisemitism.

So, a stance against Israel's occupation and GENOCIDE (as it is defined my international) is to the determinate of Jewish people and all people and is just as much a pro-Jewish stance as a pro-Palestinian.

אני ישראל

אני ישראל-יש כמה אנשים מהעם שלי שעשו טבחות ואחרי כך נהייו ראשי ממשלות ועוד מצגים אותי.בשנת 1948 מנחם ביגין היה בראש היחידה שערכה טבח של תושבי דייר יסין כולל 100 איש ואישה וילדים.בשנת 1953 אריאל שרון הוביל ת'הטבח שנהרג בו תושבי קיבאיא.בשנת 1982 ארגן לבעלי ברית שלנו לשחוט באכזריות כ-2.000 במחני הבלטים סאברא ושאתילה.

אני ישראל- בשנת 1948 גנבתי יותר מ-78% מהאדמה הפלשטינית וגרשתי ת'תושביה והחלפתי אותם ביהודים מאירופה ומכל רחבי העולם.בזמן שבעלי האדמה האורגנלים שמשפחותם חייו באדמה זאת מאלפי שנים לא מותר להם לחזור.ברגע שיהודים מכל רחבי העולם מתקבלים בברכה מיידית לאזרחות

אני ישראל-בשנת 1967 אני בלעתי שאר האדמה הפלשטינית-הגדה המערבית ועזה .ושמתי ת'תושביהן תחת חוקים צבאים מדכאים.משתלטת ומשפילה את כל היבטי חיי היום יום שלהם. בסופו של דבר הם צרכים לקלוט ת'המסר ויבינו שזה לא מקובל שישארו פה והם צרכים להצטרף למליוני הבלטים הפלשטינים במחנות הבלטים בלבנון וירדן

אני ישראל- יש לי ת'היכולת להשתלט על מדיניות ארה''ב.הוועידה האמרקאית לעניינים ציבורים שלי יכולה לעשות או להרוס כל פוליטיקאי שהיא רוצה.וכמו אתם רואים כולם מתחרים כדי לרצות אותי.כל כחות העולם הן חסרות ישע נגדי.כוללות UN הכוחות המאוחדות כי יש לי ת'הוויתו האמרקאי לחסום כל גינוי נגד פשעי המלחמה שלי.ואיך שרון נסיח ת'זה בצורה ברורה''אנחנו משתלטים על ארה''ב''

אני ישראל-אני גם משפיעה על מגמת המדיה האמריקאית.ותמיד תמצאו שהחדשות נטויה לטובתי.אני השקעתי מיליוני דולרים ביחסים ציבוריים.וCNN . וניו-יורק טיימס.ואנשים ודברים אחרים שהיו עושים עבודה נפלאה למכור ת'הפרופגנדה .תסתכלו על מקורי החדשות הבינלאומית ותראה ת'ההבדל

אני ישראל-ואתם פלשטינים רוצים לנהל שיחות שלום?אבל אתם לא הכמים כמוני.אני אשא ואתן אבל אני רק הלוכת לתת לכם רשות מקומית בזמן שאני משתלטת על כל הגבולות שלכם.את מיימכם אפילו ת'השמיים וכל דבר אחר יש לו חשיבות.ובזמן המו''מ אני הולכת לבלוע פסגות ההרים ולמלא אותן בהתנחלות.ויהיו מאוכלסות בקיצוניי הקיצונים שלי החמושים עד הראש.ההתנחלויות האלה יהיו מחוברות בכבישים שאתם לא יכולים להשתמש בהם.ואתם תהיו כלואים בינהם בבנטוסטן הקטנצ'ק שלכם מוקפים במחסומים מכל כיוון

אני ישראל-בעלת הכוח הצבאי הרבעי בעולם.שיש לה נשק גרעני.איך אתם ילדים קטנים מעיזים להתעמת מול הדכוי שלי באבנים שלכם.אתם לא יודעים שהחיילים שלי לא יהססו לפצץ לכם ת'הראש וידם קלה על ההדק.תוך 17 חודשים אני חסלתי 900 מכם ופצכתי 17000 רובם אזרחים .ויש לי ת'האישור להמשיך כאשר החברה הבנלאומית תשמור על השתיקה שלה.אני מתעלמת -כמו שאני עושה תמיד-ממאות החיילים הישראלים שמסרבים להמשיך ת'הכיבוש שלי על אדמתכם ועלכם וקול מצפונם לא יגן עליכם

אני ישראל-ואתה רוצה חירותך?יש לי כדורים.טנקים.טילים.מסוקיי אפצ'י ומטוסיי F-16להשמיד אותכם.הטלתי מצור על כל הכפרים שלכם.החרמתי ת'כל אדמתכם.ועקרתי משורש עצכם.והרסתי ת'ביתכם .ואתם עדיין מבכשים חירותכם?עוד לא קלטתם ת'המסר?אתם לעולם לא תהנו בשלום או חירות כי אני ישראל

JiHELL Al-Cretin,

You REALLY think that the apartheid city of mecca/makka and the meteorite called "the kabba" can't be destroyed in retaliation?

You REALLY think that the US or India or Israel would show "respect" for mecca/makka after suffering a WMD attack?

WHAT are you smokin' pal? Google Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Your suicidal islamofascist leaders tell Infidel that islamofascists crave death while Infidels fear death.

What can be done to convince islamofascists to behave in a civilized manner?

Google Colorado Congressman Tom Tancredo. He is the first American politician to bring up M.A.D. (mecca/makka Assured Destruction).

JiHell Al Cretin, it must really suck having "the sons of pigs and monkeys" kick islamofascist ass. It is your destiny.

You can have europe, but you will NEVER have America or India or Israel.

"F" "F" Pal-e-SWINE and all islamofascists!

INSHALLAH!

@Sophia,

though it's good for you, that you don't follow the ape-like attitude of Eddie, still the fact that you are saying that the constant attacks are against Israel and Israeli people, is a total alteration of the truth.
The whole world saw last year the massacre of 1500 people (1/3 of them children) in Gaza strip, by the army of Israel - the 5th most powerful army in the world -with F16 and phosphorus bomb against a population who has no army and who was starving because of a siege forced by Israel. The war crimes are more than a fact, proven by the Goldstone report that recently was adopted by the UN. That was the most recent episode in a drama that keeps going since 1948, ethnic cleansing and genoside against Palestinians are constant since then.

The state of Israel was created on a land that Jewish people were a minority. The population of Palestine was about 690,000 in 1914 (535,000 Muslims; 70,000 Christians, most of whom were Arabs; and 85,000 Jews) (Encyclopedia Brittanica). In 1947, the UN partitioned Historic Palestine, giving 55% to the Jewish population and 45% to the Palestinian population. At the time of partition, the Jewish population owned less than 6% of Palestine. In 1948, Israel declared its “independence” on 78% of Palestine, having stolen an additional 23% of Palestine since partition. Between the time of partition and the declaration of Israel on 78% of historic Palestine in 1948, the newly formed Jewish state had depopulated (through massacres, expulsion orders, and fear tactics) over 400 villages and made refugees of at least 726,000 Palestinians. These are the historical facts, and that’s how the state of Israel was created. At the beginning of 2007, there were approximately 7.000.000 Palestinian refugees and 450,000 internally displaced persons (IDPs), representing 70% of the entire Palestinian population worldwide (9.8 million). Tell me one other state that its creation had as result such a humanitarian disaster.

Today the state of Israel is an apartheid state, having Gaza strip under this inhuman siege for so many years, having built this monstreous wall in the West Bank and forcing the Palestinian population to be humiliated every day in the checkpoints.

I’ve seen the video that was “I’m Israel” that has been pulled from the Presbyterian Peacemakers site, and all I can say that state the facts and only the facts. Nothing more. If the facts are offending for Israelis, too bad for them, because the time has came that international community knows the truth, and it’s time for the Israelis to face it too.

Penelope, with respect, the so-called "facts" lack context and are told from a highly prejudiced point of view.

It also ignores the very real fact that both the League of Nations (with cooperation of Arab leaders) and the UN supported the creation of the Jewish homeland (originally in the ENTIRE Palestine Mandate including Jordan) and the nation of Israel.

One can indeed argue that neither the Ottoman Empire nor the British nor previous conquerors of the Arab world had the right to dominate this region and "steal land" but then the Arabs, Byzantines and Romans had no right to take it from the Jews either.

The point of view you espouse also claims that conflict in the region was both inevitable and the fault of the Jews.

Do your "facts" mention the assaults against completely innocent Jewish people or the violence, by Arabs against other Arabs, which made war against the Yishuv as well as the triumph of extremists inevitable?

Do your facts mention the alliance between al Husseini and Hitler, his participation in the Shoah and the fact that other Middle Eastern leaders (especially in Jordan) were concerned about the creation of a Palestinian state post WWII because al Husseini would have been the leader?

Please note that no Arab party tried to create a "Palestinian" state either, instead Egypt and Jordan annexed Gaza and the West Bank, which Jordan completely cleansed of its age-old and more recent but entirely legal Jewish populations.

At least the Jordanians granted citizenship to local and internally displaced Palestinian Arabs. The Egyptians simply locked people up in Gaza and threw away the key.

Similarly your claim that Israel's creation was in some way unique doesn't hold water even in regard to other states created post WWII.

For example the partition of India to create Pakistan and Bangladesh involved a far greater number of people, deliberate rather than accidental "ethnic cleansing" and huge wars that are still on-going. You should probably investigate Indonesia also - one could go on and on with this - but the claim that Israel is in any sense illegal or unusual reflects bias and ignorance of basic historical fact. Indeed the history of Greece and Turkey is worth studying in the context of 20th century history and war.

So I'm sorry but your whole point of view has been poisoned by these "facts" which overlook the actual ownership or non-ownership of the land in the former Ottoman Empire/British Mandate and also the attempts at orderly purchase and reclamation of said land by the Jews, who were also desperately trying to save their collective lives.

Similarly, you are overlooking terrorism and war against Middle Eastern Jews that predates the Mandate era and resulted also in the vast ethnic cleansing of Jews from the Arab world. They were attacked and driven forth, stripped of all they had and a population transfer occured involving nearly a million people - but this isn't recognized.

Why not?

While we're on the subject how are your "facts" concerning the abuse and even genocides (real genocides) against other Middle Eastern or African minorities?

The abuse of the term "genocide" in conjunction with the Palestinians is appalling. Check the population figures.

There's a vast difference between "booming population" and "dead population" and that's the difference between the situation of the Armenians, Kurds, Jews, Assyrians, people in Darfur, people in Rwanda, people in Cambodia, etc etc etc and the Palestinians.

Finally - I guess you are an American? Will you be going "home" any time soon? Talk about stolen land. Sheese.

Mr. Sham,

Where do you come up with your claim that Arabs rather than Jews were, pre-Rome, the predominate group in Judea? Who founded Hebron, Jerusalem, Jericho, Beersheba, Masada, all the other cities and towns? Who wrote the books? Whose Temple is the basis for your mosques and churches?

I am not claiming that Arab tribes didn't also live in the region. Our languages are related, our music, our blood.

The claim that Arabs didn't also live there is false I think. Don't we all come from Abraham in Mesopotamia?

But Jewish (or if you prefer, Jewish/Hebrew/Israelite) history and civilization are real and they are ancient and covered a long span of time.

And, this history is centered on the land of Israel.

Whereas Arabs are widespread and have many enormous nations, and in fact have repeatedly abused Jews including in Arabia proper, Jews have always been focused on the area roughly within the borders of modern Israel.

We built, we wrote, we sang and danced and we created. Claiming that we only lived in Judea and Samaria for 100 years strikes me as innaccurate. Jerusalem itself is thousands of years old and has always been the capital of the People of Israel even when we were scattered.

You write that we were often attacked and expelled from the Land of Israel. This is true. It is part of the tragic history of the Jewish people.

We were attacked by empires, expelled, enslaved, the Temples were destroyed.

In fact there are no Jews today in Arabia are there? and most Jews in Israel are Arab Jews whose people were forced out of their homes in Morocco, Libya, Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, Yemen, Iraq - there are handfuls only outside of Israel today.

There are Sephardic songs about the destruction of the First Temple and the siege of Jerusalem by Babylon.

You should study those, study that history as well as the more recent history of the Jews in the Middle East. It is heartbreaking.

They say, the people who were killed right away by Babylon were the lucky ones. The survivors buried their children before they died of starvation.

So - the presence of Arabs in the area doesn't make "Palestine" or Arabs the predominate historic entity in the Land of Israel - nor does it negate a continuous and ancient Jewish presence even after the Roman destruction of Judea. And history shows that if we are evil - then so are you.

In fact "Palestine" isn't an Arab word even.

It is a Roman word, the word of a conqueror, imperialists who destroyed the Second Temple and crucified by their own accounts hundreds of thousands of Jews and crushed the Bar Kochba rebellion altogether under the Roman boot.

They renamed Judea "Syriana Palestina" after the ancient enemies of the Hebrew people, the "Phillistines" who were not Arab but probably Greek. The word itself means "invader from the seas".

Similarly your comments about "israhell" and the claim that Israel is evil are just prejudiced. They reveal a certain mindset. Can you get past this?

Is there any way I can get you to meet some Israeli people, just talk to them, see their art, their films, listen to their music, see their humanity, learn their history?

This goes for other Zionists, Diaspora Jews and other people who respect Israel such as Christians.

Respect for Palestinians and other Muslims and Arabs was ALWAYS a fundamental pillar of Zionism, which you claim is an evil philosophy.

Bad things have happened between us because of terrorism, incitement and war. Rather than argue for more of the same can we work together for a better future?

Also, we aren't a bunch "white" imperialists. Please. A lot of us are black. Most are victims of persecutions around the world, I would bet that most living Jews have recent ancestors or relatives who've had to flee or who have been killed or imprisoned or tortured by various brutal regimes.

And - most Israeli Jews are of Middle Eastern descent - what would you do with them? Throw them into the sea? Are they "colonialists"? They are as native as you claim to be.

Also, I fear, by "freedom" you mean the destruction of 7 million people and everything they've built.

How is this right? Would this make things better? Answer me honestly.

Jews in particular have had a unique and challenging history. I implore you to study this and try to relate to us and not lump us into the "bad" category, any more than I say you are evil, wrong or bad.

I see you. Now try to see me.

"Where do you come up with your claim that Arabs rather than Jews were, pre-Rome, the predominate group in Judea?"

I never said they were predominant; it is hard to tell with all those groups of bypassers throughout Palestine's history. What I said was that they had acquired a rather permanent residence in Palestine, and not like Jews in and out.

"Who founded Hebron, Jerusalem, Jericho, Beersheba, Masada, all the other cities and towns?"

Let me guess, the ancient and contemporary Palestinians?

"Who wrote the books?"

Err, if you mean the Old Testament and other israeli books, I’d say you people did. But we wrote a few of our own, too, you know.

"Whose Temple is the basis for your mosques and churches?"

Should we give you a standing ovation because your religion came first?

The Temple business, by the way, is a bit fishy to us.

"Our languages are related, our blood..Don't we all come from Abraham in Mesopotamia?"

Actually, that’s the Semites from the Arabian Peninsula. But not all of you’s are Semitic. So, no.

"But Jewish (or if you prefer, Jewish/Hebrew/Israelite) history and civilization are real and they are ancient and covered a long span of time."

True, true. But if the bacteria, fully armed, claim – and I’d say THEY’RE right about it - that the Earth belongs to them, we won’t simply surrender it to them, will we now?

"And, this history is centered on the land of Israel."

You’d love it to be.

"Whereas Arabs are widespread and have many enormous nations, and in fact have repeatedly abused Jews including in Arabia proper, Jews have always been focused on the area roughly within the borders of modern Israel."

You’re gravely wrong…on many levels. The Arabs and Muslims are many countries, true, but Jews as individuals are as much widespread across the world, and never were focused in Palestine. Also, the Arabs and Muslims protected you when you were being burnt alive by the Christians who you say respect you most. So I’d recommend you become less ungrateful. It is not nice.

"We built, we wrote, we sang and danced and we created."

Great, so did we. But you’ve been stealing our culture the same way you’ve been stealing our land.

"Claiming that we only lived in Judea and Samaria for 100 years strikes me as innaccurate."

As a constant, uninterrupted presence: yes, 100 years at best. But that’s just being generous; 80 years is more like it.

"Jerusalem itself is thousands of years old"

True, something I am personally proud of.

"and has always been the capital of the People of Israel even when we were scattered."

In your dreams. In your dreams.

"You write that we were often attacked and expelled from the Land of Israel. This is true. It is part of the tragic history of the Jewish people."
"It is heartbreaking"…etc.

Will you get over your eternal victimized attitude? You’re Zionists now, which is equivalent to Nazis. So drop the act.

"In fact there are no Jews today in Arabia are there? and most Jews in Israel are Arab Jews whose people were forced out of their homes in Morocco, Libya, Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, Yemen, Iraq - there are handfuls only outside of Israel today."

And who’s to be blamed for all that except our dear, beloved israhell?

"And history shows that if we are evil - then so are you."

Excuse me, you’re evil because you took over a land that’s not yours and terrorized its population with the ugliest of means. We’re good because we’ve been fighting your evil for the past 80 years or so. We’re not the same.

"In fact "Palestine" isn't an Arab word even."

Palestine is a name. It doesn’t have to be Arabic for it to belong to Arabs. That’s just putting it out there. But thanks for the history lesson, whether correct.

"Similarly your comments about "israhell" and the claim that Israel is evil are just prejudiced. They reveal a certain mindset. Can you get past this?"

And you’re the tolerant one? I am sorry if me being a normal person who doesn’t tolerate liars and racists disrupts your larger scheme. But I am quite comfortable with "my mindset"; it helps me sleep at night. I hope yours doesn’t you.

"Is there any way I can get you to meet some Israeli people, just talk to them,"

I will see them first hand, inshallah, when I return to the free Palestine.

"see their art, their films, listen to their music,"

Not interested. Not sorry.

"see their humanity,"

Been there, done that, especially the 24 day carnage of Gaza almost a year ago.

"Respect for Palestinians and other Muslims and Arabs was ALWAYS a fundamental pillar of Zionism, which you claim is an evil philosophy."

Hmm, but the history of Zionism begs to differ. Take this, a beginner’s version:
http://palestineremembered.com/Acre/Palestine-Remembered/Story452.html

"Bad things have happened between us because of terrorism, incitement and war. Rather than argue for more of the same can we work together for a better future?"

True, true, bad things happened because of your terrorism. Yeah, Sophia, why don’t we work together towards a better future? Which reminds me, you haven’t answered my set of questions to you. I wonder why.

"And - most Israeli Jews are of Middle Eastern descent - what would you do with them? Throw them into the sea? Are they "colonialists"? They are as native as you claim to be."

No, most israeli Jews are from Europe and America. The minority who are to be considered Semitic, however, by definition, they are not colonists. And they’re welcome. Hell, I am all for peaceful, Palestinian Jews.

"and not lump us into the "bad" category, any more than I say you are evil, wrong or bad."

Distinguish between Jews and israelis/Zionists, please. Most of us are trying to.

"Also, I fear, by "freedom" you mean the destruction of 7 million people and everything they've built."

By freedom I mean the right of the 10 million Palestinians inside Palestine and in the diaspora. By freedom I mean Palestine who has been buried underneath your delusion of a state. By freedom I mean the Phoenix that we’ll rise as from the ashes.

"How is this right? Would this make things better? Answer me honestly."

Honestly? Yes, it would.

"I see you. Now try to see me."

I see you very clearly. Now you look at yourself in the mirror. And…boo!

I really need to say the following because I think it’s vital.

Look at these facts and try to come up with a non-Zionist propagandist conclusion:

1. The Semitic Canaanites were the ancestors of Arabs. They migrated to Palestine 2000 years before the Hebrews decided to leave Egypt and go there. The Hebrews, from the word “habiru” meaning nomad, were the ancestors of Jews.

2. The Palestinian Arabs lived in Palestine for thousands of years, AT LEAST starting from the Islamic Caliphate from 638 AD till 1917 AD (except the brief periods of the crusades). They were the majority of the Palestine population before israhell – about 93% were Arabs, both Muslims and Christians - and the rest Jews.

From the above one can conclude that:
1. The ancient Palestinians were there first, before the ancient kingdom of Israel.
2. The contemporary Palestinians were there first, before the modern state of israhell.

This should give inkling about the original owners of Palestine.

Until we come fact to face in the finale...

Peace out.

Hello,

I am a newcomer to this thread, a Christian from out of town. And I must say, what a sorry excuse for a thread it has been! Its like a low-budget re-make of Lord of the Flies where despite the valiant calls to reason by the minority, the heathen mob have chosen to daub themselves in tribal colors and chase after Jihane, a polite & clearly intelligent young lady about whom you know nothing. You jab at her with every sort of nasty barbed falsehood without listening to a word she attempts to say in her defense. You seem hell bent on running her off the island, presumably via the nearest cliff! All you attackers should be ashamed of yourselves! Clearly you have spent far too much time listening to the pay-per-lie windbags on Rupert Moloch's FauxNews (not that th rest of what passes for U.S. media is much better).

Is there not at least a single individual amongst you who realizes it is ISRAEL which has a proven track record for FALSE FLAG TERROR, in other words blowing up person(s) or building(s) in a way that innocent third parties are falsely blamed? The 1946 bombing of the King David Hotel was the first - Israeli Terrorists dressed up as Arabs and carried a large quantity of explosives, packed in milk churns, into the basement of the King David Hotel. KABOOM! - many killed & injured. Of course it wasn't Israel's fault, because some phone message didn't get through. Oookay. Then, in the 50's, the Lavon Affair, same sort of deal, except in Egypt. On that occasion th Israeli Terrorists were only caught because the KABOOM happened prematurely - a bomb destined for a theatre blew up in an Israeli Terrorist's pocket. Hahahaha. Lets hope his injuries were not superficial!

Then in 1967 there was the shameful incident when Israel attacked the USS Liberty, an unarmed American surveillance ship. Israel hammered away at The Liberty from unmarked mirage fighters & torpedo boats. Liberty was displaying a huge stars & stripes, but that made no difference. Israel hit Liberty with everything short of nukes - cannons, machine guns, missiles, napalm, torpedoes! A rescue mission was rapidly dispatched from a nearby carrier, but Zio-puppet POTUSI LBJ, the treasonous snake, called back the rescuers! Despite Johnson's disgraceful betrayal of his military, the Liberty survived & eventually made it back to safe harbor. Many of the brave U.S. sailors lived to tell the tale. But they were never allowed!! They were gagged!! Mustn't embarrass Israel by holding IT to account, eh? They are belatedly turning whistleblower now. Their accounts make for harrowing reading.

There have been many other bombing incidents where Israeli criminality is strongly suspected, but for now let's fast forward to 21st Century terror, specifically, but certainly not limited to 9/11: Anyone here not heard of those "5 Dancing Israelis"? They certainly had a lot of fun on the day - laughing, high-fiving, flicking cigarette lighter on & off & generally whooping it up for the camera, while the twin towers burned & were demolished right on schedule, directly behind them. Several thousand Americans are dying and Israelis decide to throw an impromptu roof-party!!?? Does that not strike any of you so-called 'Christian Zionists' as just a little odd for people who *claim* to be your friends?

A few months later, after the Mossad 9/11 party boys had been quietly deported without charge (on "visa violations"), they were giving a TV interview in which one of them let the cat out of the bag: "Our purpose was to document the event." Oops!!!
How ever could they have known there would be an event to document unless they had foreknowledge? And given then the admission that yes indeed they did have foreknowledge should they not have perhaps told someone, rather than just deciding instead to throw an impromptu '9/11 Terror-Party'?? One cannot help but suspect that these characters, at least one of whom admitted foreknowldge, and who were wildly celebrating at the deaths of several thousand Americans, must indeed have been deeply, perhaps pivotally involved!

Another evidence threat: Carl Cameron, of the typically execrable FauxNews accidentally got way too close to the truth in a special feature piece he presented: "Evidence linking these Israelis to 9/11 is classified. I cannot tell you about evidence that has been gathered. It's classified information."
http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/fiveisraelis.html
Good work Carl, although I doubt that Uncle Rupert thought so! The story only aired once and was even pulled from the Fox site never to be seen again, except of course by countless millions on th blogosphere (God bless us all! )

Now as to the key unanswered question (for some) of who actually was piloting those doomed planes, what makes you Muslim-bashing lot so certain there was ANYONE at the controls, at least anyone still alive? Who would be so stupid as to sacrifice their own life when there's proven technology that's perfectly capable of slamming a plane into a building, and with no-one getting hurt (at least none of th perpetrators getting hurt that is). Flying a plane by remote control is really a very simple matter. Just ask your then Pentagon Comptroller, you know, Rabbi Dov Zakheim, the guy who was unable to account for some USD $2.3 TRILLION missing from Pentagon funds. (HINT to Dov's successors: Try looking down th backs of th Pentagon settees. I'm always finding Loose Change in mine! If its not there, look in Israel.) But getting back to the planes, does anyone know what Rabbi Zakheim used to do for a quid before he was parachuted into that gig as Chief Money Losing Dude for the Pentagon? Well, I'll tell ya... Rabbi Zakheim was C.E.O. for 'Flight Termination Systems', a company that specialized in technology for remotely flying airplanes. Marvelous stuff - planes can be taxied, taken off, flown all over the country-side, landed neatly on a tarmac, or even flown into a building, should the operational need arise. Just program in the flight-path, then the computer does the rest!

Now bearing all those facts in mind, I really think you lot ought to go away and have a long think about that whole "19 mad Muslim suicide bombers" story that you persist in throwing at people. Because frankly it no longer holds water. Not that it ever did.

And in the interim, do please stop carrying on as if Jihane is in some way your "enemy", and stop smearing her spirituality as some persist in doing, as a "death cult". Muslims wish for their loved ones to live long, peaceful & productive lives just as much as true Christians do. It is you so-called 'Evangelical' 'Christian Zionists' who are in gross error here. It was your support that helped to empower George W Idiot & his neocon mates when they instigated those illegal & infinitely wicked wars of aggression. It is you who are seen plainly to have the blood of a million innocents on your guilty hands. If there is any 'death cult' here, it is your "Christian Zionism". (an oxymoron if ever there was one!)

You can at least be grateful that Jesus Christ did offer forgiveness for all who truly repent and attempt to set matters right. Is there perhaps at least one amongst you who would like to go first?

You know, Mr. Magee, I agree with you about bigotry.

However you embody it. The Liberty now? The King David?

What do you really know a) about the British Empire and its machinations against the Jewish people (yes even before, during and after the Shoah - do you think this MIGHT have had something to do with the Irgun's attack on them? b) the confusion during the 1967 war and c) the fact that the Irgun, et.al., were anathema to the vast majority of the Jews in the Yishuv?

Also don't you think modern Jewish history has anything to do with this stuff?

Finally, accusing Israel of being the only party to "false flag" operations is beyond absurd and extremely biased. One could write a book here.

Sham. I'm a little surprised.

Your claims seem ahistorical and impossible to prove in any case - but more importantly you seem to be basing your self-respect or at least national self-respect on the denigration of another people.

Why?

This is exactly what I'm trying to fight in this thread, if you'll notice I'm trying to talk to you and other posters respectfully but also reason with the racists who reflexively hate Palestinians, Arabs, Jews, Israelis and Muslims in general.

Yet, you throw my words back in my face. This is sad. I value the conversation nonetheless, it is enlightening.

I thought you might want to read this article about Semitic peoples/languages:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semitic

As to your comment that not all Jews are Semites - so what? Jews have always been open to others and we've apparently been a mixed group for thousands of years, in terms of race and ethnicity. So?

Arabs let alone Palestinians are not all Semites either. The Arab League states occupy huge areas of Africa as well as the Levant and the Hijaz and incorporate many minorities.

Are those minorities not Arab? Or what?

Palestinians often have Crusader ancestors, many came in the 19th century from throughout the Ottoman Empire and aren't even Arab let alone "Canaanite". Some are of Kurdish, Bosnian or Turkish descent. Al Husseini had a Circassian mother.

I sure hope this isn't just about race. Good lord. Haven't we all suffered enough from the Nazis?

Regardless, Nappy's history is correct as far as I know. Trying to deny Jewish history is pointless. It will not go away even if we're all killed.

By the same token - the facts of Jewish history do not deny the importance of Arabs! Far from it - are we not interwoven? Regardless of whatever lies you've been told - Zionist ideals do not disrespect or intend harm to Arabs.

War, lies, incitement and terrorism have created walls between us. Shouldn't we work to tear them down?

And most ironic of all - much of this history about the Canaanites, the Philistines, etc comes from the old Hebrew books, which collected the stories and folk tales of those ancient times and preserved them.

So if you deny our history you are also denying your own, given how intimately linked we truly are.

Meanwhile, I'm unfortunately aware that some of you "have doubts" about our Temple yet the Quran and Christian bible sit squarely on Israel's books just as al Quds sits on the Temple walls.

Do you think this is an accident?

Islam and Christianity wouldn't exist were it not for Jewish people, history, books and religion.

Kinda ironic isn't it? Unless of course you propose to worship the Canaanite god too since you appear to claim their blood?

You see how absurd this argument becomes?

People are not just about blood and soil. We're about ideas, we're about creativity, love, and ideals. We have choices. That's the real lesson of Genesis: humans have choices.

So let's stop digging ever deeper ditches between us and try to build some bridges instead, ok? In time maybe everybody will walk across them in peace and openness, not through conquest or threat.

Sophia,

My reply to you comes with delay, but still I’m amazed by the way you are thinking. Your argument that the “creation” of Israel was not unique in history, and that other states have been created out of ethnic cleansing, how that justifies the ethnic cleansing by the zionist regime of Israel? What a humanitarian logic. You say other ethnic cleansings were “deliberate” and not “accidental”, does that mean that the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians is “accidental”?

Here is what Ghandi had said about Palestine: “Palestine belongs to the Arabs in the same sense that England belongs to the English or France to the French. It is wrong and in-human to impose the Jews on the Arabs. What is going on in Palestine today cannot be justified by any moral code of conduct. The mandates have no sanction but that of the last war. Surely it would be a crime against humanity to reduce the proud Arabs so that Palestine can be restored to the Jews partly or wholly as their national home. …………….. I am not defending the Arab excesses. I wish they had chosen the way of non-violence in resisting what they rightly regarded as an unwarrantable encroachment upon their country. But according to the accepted canons of right and wrong, nothing can be said against the Arab resistance in the face of overwhelming odds.”

So this is what replies to you, to the British Mandate, to the League of Nations an to the U.N. plan of partition you are reffering to, which by the way proposed a partition into an independent Jewish state (55% of the country), an independent Arab state (45% of the country) and the city of Jerusalem under an international regime. A proposal that was already unjust based on the population consistency of Arab and Jewish population by that time (650,000 Jews and 1,200,000 Arabs according the UN’s draft). Israel never respected the partition plan. Following Israel's unilateral declaration of independence on 14 May 1948, Arab neighbor states declared war. Israel subsequently established itself by force on 78% of Palestine. Since then the state of Israel, ignores arrogantly all the numerous UN resolutions that condemn the on going ethnic cleansing and deportation of the Palestinians, up to this day.

You say I’m biased, and then you mention the alliance between Al Husseini and Hitler. Ok we see now how unbiased you are, since we have read in Haaretz that Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman has ordered diplomats to use an old photograph of a former Palestinian religious leader meeting Adolf Hitler to counter world criticism of a Jewish building plan for East Jerusalem.”
Is Israeli foreign minister propaganda that help you to be unbiased? Try to see it the other way. And start to think about the zionists collaboration with the Nazis: “During World War II, the Lehi organization, an offshoot of Begin’s Irgun that was headed by Yitzchak Shamir sought an alliance with Nazis!”
I urge you to read this article written by Jews against zionism:

http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/zionism/zanda.cfm

This article may also replies to your other question about the Jews in the Arab countrys. It is known how zionists used terrorism to “fascilitate” the immigration of Jews from the Arab countries.

“ The Zionists worked relentlessly to create fear among Jews in the Arab countries after the Zionist state was established. Their tactic work most successfully in Yemen, Morocco, Iraq, Algeria, Libya, Tunisia.”

Well, I’m not American. I’m from Greece and I know the history of my country very well. You know, when people are under occupation but they love their country so much, there will come a moment that they will liberated. That is what the history of my country teaches me. And even if I was American, you tell me what, that since the Americans took part to the genocide of the Indians, shouldn’t speak up for the unjuctise that is happening today against the Palestinians?

You speak about terrorism by the Palestinians? Well, resistance is an option that the occupier must wait for. But the most important thing is this: That Israel is the number one terrorist state of today, terrorizing, killing and having under cruel occupation the Palestinians. While you are in for the cultural interraction between the people of the earth, you should take into account that injustice never promoted this cause. Bridges can't be built with F16 and phosphorus bombs to the occupied territories. Bridges do not have the form of walls and check points. Bridges don't discriminate civilians into Arabs and Jews, as the state of Israel does. At least not the bridges I know.

"penelope" and "magee", you asinine apologists for islamofascism and national socialism...

Arab/Islamofascist Crimes Against Humanity
Sadly, this incomplete list will continue to grow.

- 1980-1988 iraq / iran war – why can't muslims get along with each other?
- islamofascist regime of iran using their own children to clear minefields
- Iraq invasion of Kuwait – AKA First Gulf War
- hezbullah outstretched arm nazi salutes – like their euro nazi filth and arab nazi mufti filth predecessors
- 1915 turkish / ottoman genocide of Armenian people
- Muslims killing Muslims in Iraq just a day ago
- Muslims killing Hindus in India
- 1988 WMD attack by saddam hussein on Kurds of Halabja Iraq – 5,000 murdered
- Genocidal threats against Israel by the islamofascist regime of iran

- 1993 bombing of the World Trade Center
- 2004 bombing of trains in Madrid
- 1985 hijacking of the Achille Lauro and execution of wheelchair bound passenger Leon Klinghoffer
- 1972 hijacking of the Munich Olympics
- Hijacking of Lebanon by syria
- Hijacking of Lebanon by islamofascist regime of iran puppet hezbullah
- 2004 Beslan school massacre – 334 murdered (186 children)
- 1998 bombing of two US embassies in Africa – killed hundreds of Africans
- 2000 bombing of USS Cole – why do USS Liberty troofers always forget the Cole???
- 1996 bombing of Khobar Towers
- 1983 bombing of Marine barracks in Beirut
- 2002 bombing of Bali
- 1988 bombing of Pan Am 103
- 2008 Mumbai India massacre
- 2002 video tapped beheading of journalist Daniel Pearl and other hostages, by masked men shouting "allahu akbar"
- Honor killings of Muslim girls by their family members (father, brothers)
- Female genital mutilation
- Current day slavery in Sudan, Mauritania
- Current day Somali pirates
- Current day oppression of Coptic Christians in Egypt
- 2002 Beltway Sniper terrorist
- 2001 failed bombing of in-flight plane by british born convert to islam sneaker bomber
- 2005 bombing of bus and underground of Londonistan
- 2007 attack on Glasgow airport
- 2004 murder of Theo Van Gogh
- 1989 death fatwa on Salman Rushdie for writing a book of fiction
- 2005 death threats and deadly riots over "muhammed" cartoons
- 2001 taliban destruction of the 1,500 year old Buddahs of Bamiyan Afghanistan
- 1968 Assassination of Senator Robert F. Kennedy
- 1993 foiled "Day of Terror" plot in New York City
- 1990 execution of Colonel William Richard Higgins
- 1985 execution of American sailor Robert Dean Stethem - The USS Stethem is named in his honor
- 2005 assassination (an arabic word) of Rafic Hariri
- 1981 assassination (an arabic word) of Anwar Sadat

- 2001 hijacking of 4 commercial airliners

- Celebration of the 9/11 islamaofascist sneak attack on the US, by the Finsbury Park mosque in Londonistan – Google Captain Hook, Abu Hamza

- Open, public calls for a 9/11 attack on the uk by british muslims

- british muslims cursing and spitting on british soldiers in Luton

Islamofascist/socialist dominated OPEC which RAPES the ENTIRE WORLD with OVERPRICED oil – paid for with AFTER TAX dollars by the ENTIRE WORLD

Google "FBI Most Wanted Terrorists" – many of the terrorists are named some variant of "muhammed"

Read the "hamas charter" of 1988, same year that Pan Am 103 was bombed, to see genocidal islamofascism codified. Islamofasicsts even have it in for Freemasons, Lions and Rotarians – like their euro nazi filth predecessors.

P.S. "penelope" and "magee", we are coming up on December 11th. Do you know what significant event occurred on that date in 1941?

Sham called Pal-e-swine,

Even the Kuwaitis kicked your fellow paleswinians out, due to paleswinian support of invading muslim war criminal saddam hussein.

JOOOZ kick your islamofascist ass. That's why you call it a NAKBA. Your defeat at the hand of JOOOZ is counter to what your imams, sheiks, quote from your hate filled 'holy book'.

And when you don't have Infidels/Kuffars to kill, you kill each other, you kill your daughters, you sacrifice your children. You use your children as cannon fodder, as shields.

Your khaled mashal, the leader of your hamass terrorists, doesn't live in paleswine with his "people", but in syria.

Your former First Lady of paleswine, the wife of your late terrorist leader yassir arafat doesn't live in paleswine with her people - despite receiving a fat paycheck, but in luxury in Paris.

Jews were in Israel BEFORE your religion of hate was invented by your terrorist prophet muhammed.

How many people did your prophet muhanmmed kill?

What's the deal with Aiesha? Wafa Sultan says that your 50+ year old prophet muhammed married a 9 year old girl. At least he didn't sacrifice her as your hamass/hezbullah terrorist do today.

What uniform do your hamass/hezbullah terrorists wear to distinguish themselves from REAL civilians?

Except for the Uncle Tom neturi karta, the days of islamofascists riding roughshod over Jews are OVER forever.

Sham called Paleswine, may you continue to know failure, defeat, NAKBA.

INSHALLAH!

Halachic , Guide for the Killing of Gentiles
Anait Brutian

Yitzhak Shapira, the fanatical Zionist rabbi, who heads the Old Yosef Chai Yeshiva in the illegal settlement of Yitzhar, near Nablus and rabbi Yossi Elitzur have penned a new book: Torah HaMelech (The King’s Torah) that has become the subject of the news in Eretz Yisrael (Hebrew for Land of Israel) (http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/article.php?p=41807). According to Roee Sharon, the book contains no less than “230 pages on the laws concerning the killing of non-Jews, a kind of guide for anyone who ponders the question of if and when it is permissible to take the life of a non-Jew” (Original Hebrew article by Roee Sharon, Maariv, November 9, 2009 at: http://www.nrg.co.il/online/1/ART1/964/186.html?hp=1&loc=1&tmp=3416; a full translation of the Maariv article can be read at: http://coteret.com/2009/11/09/settler-rabbi-publishes-the-complete-guide-to-killing-non-jews/).

The book follows the halachic laws (the collective body of Jewish religious law, including the 613 biblical laws) for the killing of the goyim (Hebrew for nations), who threaten Eretz Ysreael (http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/article.php?p=41807). “Jews have the right to kill non-Jews in just about any circumstance.” “If we kill a gentile who has sinned or has violated one of the seven commandments ... there is nothing wrong with the murder” (http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=238444). The permission to kill is given on the basis of the Sheva mitzvot B'nei Noach (the seven Noachian Laws), which, according to the Talmud, should be followed by all mankind (http://coteret.com/2009/11/09/settler-rabbi-publishes-the-complete-guide-to-killing-non-jews/; seeThe Noachian Laws at: http://jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=582&letter=J&search=jubilees#1948). “When we approach a non-Jew who has violated the seven Noachian laws and kill him out of concern for upholding these seven laws, no prohibition has been violated” (http://coteret.com/2009/11/09/settler-rabbi-publishes-the-complete-guide-to-killing-non-jews/). The Yeshiva World News official website justifies the book’s permission to kill with the following statement: “The sefer [Hebrew for book] adds that killing a non-Jew who has violated the Seven Mitzvos [Hebrew for commandments] given to non-Jews because we care about torah and mitzvos, then this is acceptable. It stresses the importance of Eretz Yisrael,the halachic requirements of the land, and living within a torah framework” (http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/article.php?p=41807). Similarly, the book justifies the killing of “non-Jews who demand the land for themselves” (http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=238444).

Civilians are not immune from Shapira’s and Elitzur’s attacks: “Any case in which the life of the civilian endangers Israel – it is allowed to kill a gentile.” This authorization applies to direct and indirect “endangering” of Israel. Thus civilians who aid fighters, support the war, or sympathise with the resistance should be killed (http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=238444). The Rabbis also encourage the killing of non-Jews that bear Israeli citizenship but are suspected of assisting organizations that are considered a “threat to national security” by the present regime (http://www.aljazeerah.info/News/2009/November/9%20n/Zionist%20Rabbi%20Calls%20for%20Killing%20of%20Even%20Non-Jewish%20Children%20and%20Infants%20if%20They%20Pose%20a%20'Threat'%20to%20Israel.htm). According to Shapira and Elitzur babies and children can be killed, too because they are “hindrances.” “Hindrances—babies are found many times in this situation. They block the way to rescue by their presence and do so completely by force. Nevertheless, they may be killed because their presence aids murder. There is justification for killing babies if it is clear that they will grow up to harm us, and in such a situation they may be harmed deliberately, and not only during combat with adults.” “The children of the leader may be harmed in order to apply pressure to him. If attacking the children of a wicked ruler will influence him not to behave wickedly, they may be harmed” (http://coteret.com/2009/11/09/settler-rabbi-publishes-the-complete-guide-to-killing-non-jews/).

Sham-called-Paleswine,

"Sham" in English, the language we are communicating in means...

"1 : a trick that deludes : hoax
2 : cheap falseness : hypocrisy
3 : an ornamental covering for a pillow
4 : an imitation or counterfeit purporting to be genuine
5 : a person who shams"

Ironic isn't it?

Sham, re your comment:

"So? First, we're not related - a claim you enthusiastically proposed to spread "love and peace", and then turned suddenly careless about. Second, contemporary Jews may not be related to Abraham, who - according to you - landed a discriminate preference from God and passed it on to Isaac that Palestine to be given on a golden plate to the Jews, and the Jews alone. They're the "chosen people", you know. So, assuming we give a damn about your beliefs regarding Palestine, if you're not Isaac's descendents; if you don't constitute the lineage of the old Israelites, how on Earth do you claim Palestine to be yours from God? It was promised to them, and not to you. Of course, all is based on your narrative. This means you don't have even the historic right you keep bragging about."

People are related spiritually and culturally. (Isn't this part of Islam?)

Thus we don't necessarily need to be blood relatives to be spiritual and cultural relatives and heirs to a particular set of traditions.

Isn't it so? I'm assuming you're Arab, if you aren't then yeah we probably aren't blood relatives. But if you are - well - if you saw my family you'd say, yeah, descendants of Isaac, without a doubt. Semites, for sure.

But that's BESIDE THE POINT because the people of Israel (am Yisroel) aren't about race, we're about shared culture, history, languages and beliefs, even though we're constantly arguing.

That is what makes a people - not blood: culture, history, language, ideals. Not blood. And that history ties us directly to Israel, by thousands of years of history.

It also ties us to other peoples of the Middle East, and also to Christians and Muslims.

Surely you can see this?

Now: this business about Isaac supposedly happened thousands and thousands of years ago - who takes this stuff literally?

Apparently you do - we sure as hell don't - certainly not left wing Zionists. But historically Jews are tied to Israel, period.

That's not from the sky fairies, that's from the history of real people.

Zionism intended only to share the land with the Arabs. It NEVER intended to REPLACE THE ARABS. That this to some degree occurred is a result of the 1948 war, not a plan.

The plan of the Arab warlords in '48 and subsequently, however, was to get rid of the Jews altogether.

Sadly, I think that's the real intention of "propalestinians". To hurt us.

Isn't it?

Yet here I am, like an idiot, trying to reason with you. And I note, when I extend a hand in friendship, trying to find some common ground, you immediately snap at it.

Well, that's a shame but it won't change me. I will keep trying.

So. Here's a fact. The very meaning of the term "Zionism" is completely distorted, mostly by people who don't understand it, who haven't studied it, but who read only propaganda. Why don't you study some Jewish historians (real historians, not propagandists)?

Third: Respectfully you misuse the term "chosen people". This means chosen to carry a burden (ie to G*d and to perform the blessings/obligations and live a righteous life). Of course if you aren't a scholar of Judaism you wouldn't know this.

Now you know it.

Fourth: With respect, it's kind of futile to claim that Islam predates or supercedes Judaism. That's a belief, not a fact.

And - isn't that racist or at any rate bigoted? You are claiming that Judaism and Jews are inferior.

Think about it. Just from the historical perspective or from the perspective of a secular person.

Fifth: You haven't answered me about Arabs. Are Arabs all "Semites"? (Obviously not).

What about the influx of "Palestinians" who are actually Turks, Kurds, Bosnians, etc, and didn't come until the 19th century at the behest of the Sultan? Why do they have any rights to Israel or even a future Palestinian state?

In fact the status of "Arab refugee" from 1948 was given to people who'd only been in the territory for two years (which is the only example of this - in other conflicts you have to show a generation of residency to claim refugee status).

And note - the term "Arab" as opposed to "Palestinian" was deliberately used. Why do you think that was?

Sixth: I am hardly a "high ranking Zionist". I find that rather hilarious.

I'm just an American Jew whose grandparents had to flee persecution and the rest of whose family was massacred either by the Russians, the Nazis or the Soviets.

For me Israel is a beautiful thing because it represents the rebirth of a horribly abused and decimated people.

It is also the only place in the world where we aren't a tiny minority subject to the whims of a majority that can quickly become a mob.

I think it's tragic that others were hurt in the process of creating Israel. I hope there is a way to heal these wounds.

As for Jews - we're lucky here in America. Elsewhere in the world our situation is precarious. We could easily be attacked and wiped out again. We need a home, a place to go.

There are AT MOST 15 million Jews in the entire world. This is as opposed to hundreds of millions of Arabs and 1.5 billion Muslims and more than 2 billion Christians.

Yet, we are resented for our tiny state.

Does this make any sense to you at all? Step back for a minute and try to see it from this perspective.

I hear you, I think, my own family having lost so much, I can relate to the Palestinian point of view. I would seek ways to communicate and get past the anger and preconceived ideas and misconceptions - but you don't seem to hear me.

Nobody ever intended to hurt you. We only wanted to live beside you.

But, we were attacked almost immediately and have been terrorized and warred upon ever since.

Then people wonder why some of the people posting on this thread are angry and bigoted.

Well they're angry because they're hurt. They've seen their families blown up. They get to listen to constant abuse, to threats, to ignorant distortions of the truth.

I'm not excusing the bigotry where it occurs.

But it's rooted in war and the absolute refusal to see us as human beings and acknowledge our history.

How about this: we try to see and acknowledge each other.

Eddie, with respect, I think "Sham" in Arabic means "Syria".

Afifa, please give us a break.

Do you honestly believe that is how Israelis or other Jewish people, as a group, think?

Probably you can find a handful of nutcases. Why not? Doesn't everybody have them?

But - that isn't us. So stop already. Please.

OK Sham as for this:

“But if respect is what you're asking for, and peace, of course! Let me ask you something: why don't you people let the Palestinians have their lives? Why don't you leave the 1967 territories for them to create a Palestine on only 15% [or 22% if we assume you're ever going to give away the settlements in the West Bank, which is who-are-we-kidding?] of the original area of Palestine? Why are strangling the people of Gaza with a 3-year-old siege and the last year Holocaust that brought their buildings down to rubble and killed them to ashes? Why are building an apartheid wall across the West Bank? Why are you digging under Al-Aqsa masjid that would definitely lead to its collapse at that rate (since you haven't found any real archaeological evidence of your Jewish heritage in Jerusalem and never will)? Why do you deprive Jerusalemites from their right of residence in their forever-been homes? And so on and so forth. Why do you do all that when respect and peace is what you really want? Because unless you're schizophrenic - which I doubt -, and liars - which I am sure of - your words and actions don't mesh together.”

I think the West Bank should, with land exchanges here and there, be part of a Palestinian state. I would hope that Jewish people could live there, so that they don't have to be dragged out of their homes in the event that the land returns to the Arab state.

I think Jerusalem could be a shared capital. I think that actually dividing the city would be bad though. This would put the holy sites of Judaism outside of Israel. It would also create a sort of Berlin situation, a tragedy in a city so important to so many.

I think if the Temple Mount could be shared this would be a key step forward.

The whole thing though depends upon a true peace. It won't work unless people are really committed to coexistence.

Personally, I think the treatment of Gaza has been wrong. I wouldn't have reacted that way although I'm really afraid of Hamas. I don't think they intend peace at all.

However, I think there are 1.5 million human beings in Gaza and many of them, most of them, are just people. I am sure they intend no harm and they do not deserve to suffer, period.

I would have sent books and building materials, animals and food and I would have tried to save the jobs of Palestinians who used to work in Israel.

Also I would try to make Gaza bigger. I would give Gaza some land from the Negev and try to buy some from Egypt to give to the people of Gaza also. I would work with the UN to fix the water and sewer issues. The power plant should never have been attacked.

But, the threat of terror is very real. What can we do about that? It victimizes everybody.

The rocket attacks truly harmed the people of Israel. Gilad Shalit is important to us. He should be sent home. Kidnappings, terrorism - as I say this victimizes everybody, Israelis and Palestinians alike.

The security barrier and the checkpoints developed out of the intifada. So many people were killed and maimed by the terrorists.

The "apartheid wall" was created to protect human life and it has. Obviously though it hurts so many people.

Some of the checkpoints are already gone. I hope the security barriers can come down too. If people can agree to renounce violence then the barrier will come down. It might not be tomorrow but it will be. People will be able to travel freely as before.

I do think there needs to be some way of solving the problems between Palestinians so that everybody can work together and with Egypt and the Jordanians also.

As to specific instances of houses in East Jerusalem, I don't know enough to comment with any real degree of intelligence.

I think that razing homes is bad though, there has to be a better way. I don't think people should be harmed. I also think people should be compensated for their property.

By the same token - I think people living in a modern city should try to abide by the building codes. There's obviously some conflict between old-style Arab houses and modern building codes. I would establish a board to mediate these issues so people don't suffer yet the city is safe.

Now - the business about the mosque though - this part simply isn't true:

Sham: "Why are you digging under Al-Aqsa masjid that would definitely lead to its collapse at that rate (since you haven't found any real archaeological evidence of your Jewish heritage in Jerusalem and never will)?"

There is no attempt to dig under the mosque by the Jews. In fact, we understand Arabs are digging under the mosque to get rid of the Temple.

See how propaganda gets around?

Finally, it isn't true that there are no traces of Jewish history in Jerusalem. That's also propaganda. Al Quds is real, so is the Temple.

Peace.

Sophia,

Sorry that I intervene to your dialogue with Sham, but there are some points to your posts, that I also want to address, with no attention to hurt you, whatsoever. But free speech could not be restricted, also, isn’t it?

You’re saying: “So. Here's a fact. The very meaning of the term "Zionism" is completely distorted, mostly by people who don't understand it, who haven't studied it, but who read only propaganda. Why don't you study some Jewish historians (real historians, not propagandists)?..... Zionism intended only to share the land with the Arabs. It NEVER intended to REPLACE THE ARABS. That this to some degree occurred is a result of the 1948 war, not a plan. The plan of the Arab warlords in '48 and subsequently, however, was to get rid of the Jews altogether. “

@ Quotes out of an article by Dominique Vidal, published in “Le Monde” about some real historians. Not propagandists.

“…Several thousand Palestinians fled their homes, becoming the refugees at the heart of the conflict. Israel has always denied that they were expelled, either forcibly or as a matter of policy. Israel’s "new historians" have been re-examining that denial and have put an end to a number of myths….…However, by the 1950s this version was already beginning to be contested by leading Israeli figures associated with the Communist Party and with elements of the Zionist left (notably Mapam). Later, in the mid-1980s, they were joined in their critique by a number of historians who described themselves as revisionist historians: Simha Flapan, Tom Segev, Avi Schlaim, Ilan Pappe and Benny Morris…….In "1948 and After" (chapter 4), Benny Morris deals at greater length with the role played by Yosef Weitz, who was at the time director of the Jewish National Fund’s Lands Department. This man of noted Zionist convictions confided to his diary on 20 December 1940: "It must be clear that there is no room in the country for both people (...) the only solution is a Land of Israel, at least a western Land of Israel without Arabs. There is no room here for compromise. (...) There is no way but to transfer the Arabs from here to the neighbouring countries(...) Not one village must be left, not one (bedouin) tribe."…”

More about the intention of the zionists "to live hand in hand with Arabs" in the link to the article:

http://mondediplo.com/1997/12/palestine

You are saying: “For me Israel is a beautiful thing because it represents the rebirth of a horribly abused and decimated people. It is also the only place in the world where we aren't a tiny minority subject to the whims of a majority that can quickly become a mob. …. As for Jews - we're lucky here in America. Elsewhere in the world our situation is precarious. We could easily be attacked and wiped out again. We need a home, a place to go.”

How is that Sophia? Where in the world today the Jews are under persecution, discrimination or attack? Where in the world your situation is precarious? Could you give me some examples about this? Because in the most respectful worldwide neutral organizations as f.e. "Amnesty International" or "Human Rights Watch" couldn't find anything .... Oh, I forget these two organizations have been accused of .... "Anti-semitism" only because they spoke against the atrocities they witnessed made by Israel to the Palestinians.

“Sadly, I think that's the real intention of "propalestinians". To hurt us. Isn't it? “

Why should be this way Sophia? Please tell me. My country helped a lot the Jews during the time of their persecution by the Nazi’s. In fact we are very sentimental about the plague of the Jews at that time. I, personally, have shed tears upon tears for the persecution of the Jews, with every movie I saw, with every book I read, with every memory reached to me by my parents. Should then, not me or the people of my country speak up now, for those who are under real persecution and attack? Should we support the previous victims to steal more land or to daily terrorize the current victims? Should we lament forever because of your past tragedy, or should we join our voices, in order to avoid further tragedies that are happening now in front of our eyes?

“Personally, I think the treatment of Gaza has been wrong. I wouldn't have reacted that way although I'm really afraid of Hamas. I don't think they intend peace at all.”

You find the treatment of Gaza has been wrong??? Simply wrong? No, Sophia, there were commited WAR CRIMES according to a Jew, a very proud and honest Jew, Richard Goldstone, and the report he produced for the UN, which the UN council adopted. War crimes are not simply “wrong” they are crimes against humanity and have to be judged in the International Court, and those who are responsible have to be convicted. This is how simple it is.

“The rocket attacks truly harmed the people of Israel. Gilad Shalit is important to us. He should be sent home. Kidnappings, terrorism - as I say this victimizes everybody, Israelis and Palestinians alike.”

Check some numbers again given by the Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs for the Ocuppied territories: For the years 2005-2008: 1757 Palestinians dead, 117 Israelis dead. I don’t underestimate the 117 Israelis (how many of them were soldiers?) that lost their lives. Who’s terrorizing who? Who is the terrorist, Sophia, I really wonder.

Ghilad Shalit is important to you? Really?
What about the 6.200 children not soldiers, kidnapped by IOF soldiers since 2000? How important are they to their mothers and fathers? I just wonder.

“I hear you, I think" you’re saying to Sham, my own family having lost so much "I can relate to the Palestinian point of view. I would seek ways to communicate and get past the anger and preconceived ideas and misconceptions - but you don't seem to hear me.”

You know what I would do? I would do what so many proud and brave Jews & Israelis are already doing. I would stand up against the “Apartheid State” as so many people did, during WWII against the Nazi’s. Why should all those people fight the fascism of then, shouldn’t the people of today fight against injustice? There are many Jews worldwide and Israelis, who they are protesting occupation, they are standing against the “Apartheid State”. Supporting a state who bombards civilians and then, sending to the victims books to make them feel better, is just not good enough. Don’t seek ways how to get past the anger, seek ways to get past the injustice, and then the anger will be past, and only then.

Those were my final words I guess to a thread that last too long, and there are two other people here, constantly calling names and criminally encouraging genocide against all Arabs and against Muslims. Oh, they are hurt I guess. They are hurt because they are not satisfied with the millions of people that are dying in Iraq, in Afganistan, in Pakistan and so on … They want all of them wiped out. How sad is that?

Penelope I don't mind your comments at all, I had written back to you but copied the draft to my hard drive because it was so long.

As far as the New Historians are concerned, some are right and some have apparently miread, misused or simply ignored the archives and others are politically motivated.

The British background and training of most New Historians is a factor you must consider for several reasons. Please study the Bevin government but also the treatment of refugees from the Shoah and the mistreatment of Jews in the M.E. by the British, and also historic antisemitism in Britain and how that spread to the Middle East. It influences the discourse today.

BTW I have read all of them, Segev, Schlaim, Morris et.al. They offer valuable insights and it speaks well of Israel, doesn't it, that people are willing to challenge national myths. I wish there were some Palestinian "new historians".

In any case I agree the absolutely purity of arms and of intent claimed earlier didn't exist.

There were atrocities against Arabs. There were deliberate expulsions BUT EVEN THE NEW HISTORIANS MUST AGREE THESE WERE FEW RELATIVE TO THE HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS WHO JUST LEFT. And, there were atrocities against Jews too. Nobody seems to think about this nor about the displacement of nearly 1 million Arab Jews.

Importantly, there was also a genocidal war being waged against the Yishuv which was vastly outnumbered and underarmed and isolated. The people fighting were often completely untrained and were fresh from concentration camps.

You should add that to your thinking, ie the context of the situation and the time frame in which it occured, ie 3 years after WWII and the extermination of the Jews in Europe and also the overflow of the Nazis/Vichy into North Africa and the murders of Jews throughout the Middle East.

Second, I wrote a lot about Greece in my draft to you. I was so close in years past to the Greek community in my city that I came to consider myself half Greek. I am aware that many Greeks did try to hide the Jews from the Germans but nevertheless almost the entire Jewish community in Greece was exterminated.

Painfully, and I encountered this personally, there is, and I hope you'll study this, a long history of antisemitism in Greece. I believe it's influencing the way many Greeks look at Israel and Israeli history.

I think it must stem from religion? Orthodox Christianity is not kind to the Jews, this is true in Russia also.

The Ottoman Turks did indeed value the Sephardim (Spanish Jews) and gave them sanctuary after they were expelled from Spain.

But a lof of Greeks look down on us and we were horribly abused in Russia where antisemitism is a resurgent problem.

It just isn't enough to shed a tear for all the dead millions now or for the abuses we suffered over a number of centuries and it's especially disgusting when this is combined with antipathy and outright hatred for Israel.

In any case I find the combination of treacly sorrow for the dead Jews of Greece combined with hatred of Israel just about unbearable.

This is especially annoying considering there was a mass expulsion of Muslims from Greece and an attack on Turkey resulting in a similar expulsion of Greeks 1920-1922.

Greek attitudes toward "the other" are not as open as claimed and even Theodorakis is quite antisemitic. Greeks who've supported Israel have been verbally abused and threatened, for example Glykeria the singer, who has performed in Israel (on occasion with the brilliant Ofra Haza whose family fled Yemen and found sanctuary in Israel).

I don't understand why the continuum between historic mistreatment of Jews, the Shoah and Israel and also the violence against Israel and other Jews in the Middle East isn't seen and understood.

Penelope, do you think you could study this a little?

As far as Jews being under pressure, the US numbers of hate crimes indicate a vastly greater number of crimes committed against Jews here in the States, where we're very safe compared to other nations, than any other religious group.

Safety for Jews is always relative and it's always, historically speaking, temporary. If you read history you'll understand this. Attacks on Jews on the Continent are rising, Jewish institutions require 24/7 security, the only reason there aren't more attacks is because there are so few Jews left. That's because they were exterminated.

When we discuss the woes of the Palestinians the history of Israel MUST be put into this context. The Arabs waged a war of extermination against Israel and lost. Most of the Palestinians survived with their lives.

And, contrary to claims of "ethnic cleansing" a substantial number stayed and became Israelis. Real ethnic cleansing means just that, like what happened to the Jews of the West Bank and the old city of Jerusalem at the hands of Jordan. It means they were expelled to a person - every. last. one. Deliberately.

Today it is a capital crime in the PA and also Jordan to sell land to a Jew. How many Jews live in the Arab world today? Are we allowed even to enter Mecca or Medina where we had lived for centuries? Yet - Israel is called "apartheid"?

Most of the Arabs on the other hand were internally displaced by a matter of less than a few miles yet remain in "camps" to this day.

This is a matter of shame for the UN and also for the Arab world. The same is true of Lebanon where Sunni Arabs from a few miles south of the Lebanese/Israeli border are locked up in ghettos. This is 60 years now and counting.

As for your claim that Israel is an apartheid state, it's bogus. Arab citizens of Israel enjoy full rights, hold high positions in the government, many serve in the IDF and in the Knesset. This is not "apartheid".

The situation in the West Bank and Gaza is different, those are disputed territories which have been at war with Israel and therefore although I do not deny the abuses where they've occured they are not pro forma but a result of war.

This is hardly the same as "apartheid" either. For example the security barrier was only erected after thousands were killed and maimed by terrorists.

Therefore I can't stand up against something that just does not exist.

What I can do is argue for statebuilding by the Palestinians and communication between Israelis and Palestinians, for better treatment of Israeli Arabs where there is a need for that. I can argue for an end to the reckless settlement builders with whom I disagree.

I deplore the abuse of Palestinians. I think there is racism and also religious zealotry. Goldberg in the Atlantic referred to some of these people as a Jewish version of Hezbollah and I agree with him.

I argue for religious tolerance and respect for Arabs, Palestinians, Muslims and Arab Christians and against bigotry and I would expect that the same courtesy be extended to Israelis and Jews.

I also think it's obvious that Jews have a right, like any other nation, to a state, JUST LIKE GREEKS.

I will not buy into propaganda and hate and I will not argue for the destruction of 7 million people and what they've built, and I will not, simply will not buy into lies or endorse them, which is what you are asking me to do.

What I am asking you to do is read some more. Read some real history, read from our point of view. Read about the war of 1948, read Karsh, Satloff, don't just read the "new" historians because they are sometimes just flat wrong and also several of them are actually British.

The relationship of the British to the Jews is something you should study. It's interesting in regard to Greece and Turkey also. There are elements of this history I think you just don't see but trust me, if you read more you will.

Thank you for the conversation.

PS as to the casualty numbers: what would Greece do if were attacked on a daily basis by Albania or by Turkey?

The French have threatened to nuke any terrorists which attack it and this comment was made by Chirac, a leftist. The Israelis have been victims of terrorism and war on a constant basis. They are trying to get it to stop.

Violence against Israeli citizens and also against Middle Eastern Jews simply doesn't enter your thought processes.

I think it should. All the problems come from violence.

PS Gandhi, on the subject of the Jews, is absurd. He recommended that they simply die en masse rather than try to survive. Well they did die en masse. Now we want to try and survive.

Does this make us evil? I think it makes Gandhi evil. What he's saying is that putative ownership of a strip of dirt is more important than life itself.

Sham. You are quoting Press TV? This is the Iranian government's propaganda outlet.

That's all I have to say to you.

Talk about delusional.

OK one more comment.

"Palestinian" and "Arab", says Sham, are "interchangeable terms".

Well. This is news.

If that is true then Palestinians are Arabs not in any way unique and belong to the so-called Arab Nation, ie part of this mythological creature to which the Palestinians claim they don't really belong, because if they did, Palestine would be part of Syria or Jordan and not seeking independent nationhood and they wouldn't be a distinct people themselves. They would just be interchangeable with other Arabs.

Right?

Give me a break.

As it is the "Palestinians" are isolated, refused citizenship in other Arab nations, maintained in perpetual refugee status and used as a weapon, which is a disgusting way to treat human beings.

Palestinians who are supposedly according to Sham just interchangeable with other Arabs have been expelled en masse from Jordan, Kuwait, Libya, are now trapped between Syria and Iraq since they supported Saddam, aren't allowed to become citizens of Egypt and Lebanon and many other Arab states. Also Palestinians have created havoc through PLO and other groups, indeed PLO et.al. are blamed for starting the Lebanese civil war, attacked Jordan, were accused of aiding Saddam in Kuwait.

In fact the children of Lebanese women and Palestinian men aren't considered Lebanese but inherit the stateless status of their fathers and have no rights as Lebanese even though they are born in Lebanon.

So, "Palestinian" and "Arab" are interchangeable terms - NEWS. They absolutely are not.

The fact is, in 1948, the term Palestinian was widely used to define the Jews. The term "Arab" was deliberately used to reinforce the concept of pan-Arabism. Some Syrians, PLO members even, have also claimed there is no such thing as Palestinians as a people but then they also don't recognize Lebanon so go figure.

There was in any case absolute refusal BY THE ARABS to establish a separate "Palestinian" state and the territories including the West Bank and East Jerusalem were annexed by Jordan, Gaza by Egypt.

As far as offers by the Israelis to help create a state, these have been refused and war has ensued. Every attempt the Israelis have made to make peace has been refused and answered with violence just as Sham is insulting me now except with weapons instead of words.

Does this mean there haven't been abuses by Israel? NO IT DOES NOT but on balance the cause of war has been a refusal to stop making war and try to make peace and build a state.

For pete's sake Sham et.al, READ SOME BOOKS and stop listening to Ahmadijenad and the extremist government of Iran. A Friend of The People they are not and the absolute last thing they want is peace between Israel and the Arabs. This would completely destabilize their attempts to create hegomony in the region.

Of course Iran is supporting Hezbollah and Hamas, the most extreme factions aimed at Israel, so maybe you empathize with them. People do claim that Palestinians have been in Iran fighting against the reformers; how interesting.

Of course other interests, Western and Russian, anybody with imperialist interest, oil interests, also don't want peace between Israel and the Arabs.

Peace might actually create a powerful, progressive entity in the Middle East. Think about it. You're being jacked around by liars, worse by people who seek to destroy such a possibility.

It is also a lie that building materials haven't been sent to Gaza. They have been. The metal pipes to fix the sewer plant came back over the border attached to warheads.

There are also plans being discussed to enlarge Gaza, these are not a dream, they're real (just like Jewish history in Israel).

The other peace offerings were real, vast amounts of territory have already been returned to the Arabs. The Sinai alone is several times the size of Israel plus it has oil. Gaza was returned with horrible results, Lebanon was vacated, ditto.

All of these plans for peace require regional cooperation, which is problem since all the various players have their own agendas. But it is not impossible.

So stop making baseless insults and start living in the real world and help things move forward instead of being an angry, immature little jerk who belittles the humanity and suffering of others, so busy is he thinking only of one side of the equation, and who refuses to believe in facts.

Worst of all this kind of anger and refusal to accept the humanity and history of others works against the possibilities of peace.

Is that your goal? THINK.

Sham-called-Pal-e-SWINE and "penelope",

Your terrorist leaders know that ONE ISRAELI is equal to 1,000 of your fellow "pal-e-SWINIANS".

Hence the trade of Gilad Shalit for 1,000 of your fellow swine.

Since 13 Israelis died from your islamofascist terrorism, then 13,000 pal-e-SWINIANS should have been sent to permanent islamofascist paradise.

Continued failure, defeat, NAKBA for "pal-e-SWINE" and it's terrorist supporters.

INSHALLAH!

Mister Magoo,

Did you forget that today, December 11th is the 68th anniversary of your fellow nazi filth declaration of War on the USA?

Four days earlier your fellow axis of evil ally imperial japan bombed Pearl Harbor.

Magoo, your "master race" couldn't restrain themselves and after invading most of europe, declared War on the USA.

The USA RESPONDED and declared War on your fellow nazi filth.

Ultimately your nazi filth SURRENDERED UNCONDITIONALLY.

I expect your new heroes, izlamofascist swine to SURRENDER UNCONDITIONALLY to Infidels too.

"Bottle rockets"?

You schmuck. Those bottle rockets are packed with schrapnel. They explode with sufficient force to knock down a house. They kill. They maim. They burn fields. They injure innocent animals.

They terrorize children who have learned to dread the alarm sirens which in any case give only seconds of warning before the "bottle rockets" explode and blast shards of metal in all directions.

This whole thread has discourages me. I had thought maybe there was some possibility to talk to you guys.

I was wrong. Your mindset is straight out of the Dark Ages, your ignorant comments about "chosen people" are medieval, your refusal even to acknowledge facts of history is depressing.

You cloak your bigotry in self-righteousness and even declare that 19th and 20th century immigrants to the Ottoman and Mandate "Holy Land" - Turkmen - Kurds - Bosnians - are descended from the Canaanites and that Jews have no rights to their own homeland. You claim that Jerusalem itself, the city of the Jews for thousands of years, has no Jewish history!

That is just absurd.

Worst of all when hands are extended in friendship you bite them off just as all the Israeli attempts to make a just and sustainable peace have been refused and answered with violence.

Then people have the chutzpah to quote Gandhi.

Right. When folks who endorse the most violent, bigoted regimes quote Gandhi I know we've fallen straight through the looking glass and back to the 1930's.

I can't agree with Eddie and his bigotry against Arabs but he's right about this: at root you guys sound more like Nazis than people seeking peace.

Sophia, it's not bigotry against Arabs,

It's "Islamophobia".

"Islamophobia" is a reaction to the world-wide jihadi terrorism (look at comment #30) that plagues the entire world.

Yet reading your previous post,

"This whole thread has discourages me. I had thought maybe there was some possibility to talk to you guys.

I was wrong. Your mindset is straight out of the Dark Ages, your ignorant comments about "chosen people" are medieval, your refusal even to acknowledge facts of history is depressing"

Your comment gives me hope that you are FINALLY waking up.

I also have no respect for Eurabia. It is a lost cause. Eurabia hates the US and above all Jews and Israel. So screw islamofascist appeasing, socialist eurabia. May it sink beneath the waves.

Remember the victims of Pan Am 103

http://www.boycottscotland.com

Dear Swine-from-Pal-e-Swine,

Awww. You going to run away? I promise to continue to treat you with the respect you deserve.

Islamofascist crimes against humanity will end one day

it may take a REAL NAKBA to befall your vaunted terrorists

but YOU WILL SURRENDER, UNCONDITIONALLY, as your euro nazi filth predecessors did in 1945.

The only question is how many more of your children will you sacrifice to satisfy the blood lust of your "leaders"?

Aren't you the least bit ashamed by how many criminals, terrorists, murderers, islamofascists are named some variant of the name "muhammed"?

When the little president of the islamofascist regime of iran stated at Columbia University that there are no homosexuals in iran as there are in the West, the audience laughed in his face.

Perhaps your little koran thumping president meant that there are NO BREATHING homosexuals in iran as iran routinely executes homosexuals. Luckily for yassir, he didn't hang around in iran.

Whenever islamofascist claim to Infidels that "Islam means Peace", you are drowned out with howls of laughter because reading the daily newspapers refutes your perverted claim.

From the river to the sea...

Pal-e-SWINE WILL NEVER BE!

INSHALLAH!

I agree that Sham shouldn't just run away, Eddie, though I really think your comments are out of line and make you sound like a bigot.

Sham shouldn't just run away. He should go do some thinking and some reading though and maybe reconsider.

But - Sham continues to insist that history = lies, refuses to acknowledge either Palestinian/Arab refusals to make peace with Israel, refuses to acknowledge that Israelis and Middle Eastern Jews have ALSO been victimized - by Arabs and Palestinian Arabs - as well as by Christians and by Muslims - and that this might have something to do with our current problems.

I agree that there have been transgressions against Palestinians. I made quite a detailed list - in fact much of what I said is what's already been proposed formally - most recently by Olmert - yet this is not acknowledged because it is easier to believe that Jews and Israelis are just evil.

The fact is, no good-faith effort to communicate or find common ground is accepted. And it's also a fact that PLO was created several years before the 1967 war - before Israel captured the West Bank and Gaza and East Jerusalem - so the point of PLO and the other wars against the Jews was to wipe them out, period - and this is also the present day goal of all too many people today.

So it's harder isn't it Sham to deal with THESE fact but more than that - to deal with somebody who quite honestly is seeking knowledge, interaction and compromise.

It's easy to deal with somebody who just stereotypes and hates you - hard to deal with somebody who honestly wants to get along.

It's hard to come face to face with another human being who doesn't fit your stereotype or accept a good faith peace offer.

It's easier just to throw insults around and be a refusnik, just as you fit Eddie's preconceived ideas.

He'd be in real shock if you talked to us as if you thought we were human beings whose point of view has merit and whose history you acknowledge.

But - it's easier to assume we're all alike and that we're all bad, then to try and readjust your thinking to the possibility that MAYBE you're wrong at least about SOME things and that you've been misled.

Same with Eddie. If he actually met an Arab or a Palestinian who didn't treat him like dirt he would have to change. He would suffer from Cognitive Dissonance, which would require an attitude adjustment.

Meanwhile, though, Sham claims the lack of peace is all our fault but won't acknowledge misdeeds by the other side, you denigrate our suffering and our losses as well as Arab violence against innocent people and even mock our history and our religion.

You deny our history, claim the Temple isn't the Temple, that we have no history in the city we founded and where Jews have lived for 3,400 years and your bigotry regarding the humanity of Jews/Israelis approaches Eddie's stereotyping and name-calling of Arabs and Palestinians.

In fact, you guys are a mirror-image.

Eddie is just less polite.

He comes right out and says you're swine, you politely say WE'RE swine, in a lot more words.

Both of you are stereotyping and neither of you wants to see that we are ALL human beings and that we have more in common than not.

See it is easy to do that, it's easy just to react and call people names and say NO NO AND NO.

It gets really hard when you meet a person or get a peace offer which is sincere.

That confronts you with a real dilemma doesn't it (ditto Eddie).

It's easy just to say oh you guys are all evil, you hate us, you're trying to kill us, everything is all your fault and JUST AS I SUSPECTED you suck.

But when you get a peace offer, either from the nation of Israel or from individuals who honestly are trying to communicate and find areas of compromise, that's a problem.

Then you might have to acknowledge it. You might have to act, you might have to do some soul-searching, you might have to read some history, you might have to build something.

You might have to ask some questions about history and about what you've been taught. You might have to acknowledge the fact that those rockets aren't toys and that they kill, that buses of Israeli kids have been exploded, that innocent Jews were murdered in Hebron in the 1920's, that simple farmers had their throats cut in the Galilee before that.

No. That would take both knowledge and self-awareness and the assumption of responsibility.

Better just to keep playing the blame game right? and continue believing we're all just evil.

Because then you don't have to take any responsibility for your own actions and most of all you don't have to compromise.

Sheese. This is the whole history of the situation in a nutshell isn't it.

My GOD Sophia. What will it take to snap you out of your dream world?

You are a prime example of a battered wife, a Hedda Nussbaum, whose husband beats the crap out of her yet she STILL defends her husband.

How many times do you have to be "beaten" by islamofascists until you conclude that the person you show respect for, hates you as a daughter of "pigs and monkeys"?

How can you still believe that you can reason with Swine-from-Pal-e-Swine or the rest of his litter?

What possible fact can you present to Swine-from-Pal-e-Swine that will change his mind from islmaofascism to civilized behavior???

It the head swine of Pal-e-SWINE who in tbeir hamass charter of 1988 declare Jews as "sons of pigs and monkeys". Can't you get it through your thick skull?

It's like Jews trying to reason with nazi filth during WW2. It's a fools errand.

The pro-peace Muslims are primarily Muslim women like Wafa Sultan, Hirsi Ali, Brigette Gabriel, Nonie Darwish, and they all have death threats on them - death threats not from Zionists, but from islamofascist terror masters.

I don't expect you to change until something terrible happens, and your change of heart will be temporary - just as the US is back to a pre-9/11 mindset.

Sophia, can you show us any "anti-war" group that has ever denounced al-qada, osmaa bin laden, islamofascist regime of iran, islamofascist execution of "dishonorable" women, gays???