Look at the venue. This guy is acting as an enabler for Yossi Beilin's latest attempt to end-run around the opinion of the Israeli voter.

Eitan is so desperate to differentiate himself form Bibi that he's heading down a path trodden by "reasonable" Likudniks from Dan Meridor to Tzipi Livni - to oblivion.

I don't think we have anything to worry about...

Ummmm - perhaps you misunderstand me and also Eitan, and haven't been listening to Bibi.

"We" most certainly have something to worry about and that's the refusal of certain parties to compromise.

Listen. If there were any way to keep the land, peacefully and without becoming a minority in Israel, without oppressing the Palestinians, I'd be the first to endorse it.

But I think this is impossible. Am I wrong?

And as far as "the Israeli voter" is concerned, aren't people actually widely dispersed across the political spectrum?

I don't think the far right can pretend to represent a plurality, even, let alone all the voters.

"We" most certainly have something to worry about and that's the refusal of certain parties to compromise.

It's high time that Israel's government and Israel's supporters here spoke more forthrightly and directly, not just about our red lines but also the fundamental legitimacy of our case and the fraud inherent in Arab claims to East Jerusalem and their denial of any Jewish connection to the land of Israel and to Jerusalem.

Bar Ilan Prof. Mordechai Kedar's interview in Arabic on Al Jazeera is a real breath of fresh air. Kedar's speaking tonight in a Boston suburb. Details on Sol's Boston Events calendar.

Israel needs less apologetic, mealy-mouthed hasbara and more straight talk. Take this Palestine IQ quiz (Part 1, Part 2). Only someone with a high Palestine IQ -- i.e, someone who is knowledgable about the true history and mindful of the decades of deception and outrageous bald-faced lies from the Arabs -- should talk as a spokesman or advocate. Lies, stupidity and self-blame got us into this mess; they won't get us out.

Nappy, I saw that and I agree that facts matter, history matters. I use these same arguments when squabbling with the far left.

And - on that score I am quite positive that Likud members can quote chapter and verse, aren't you?

I agree with you 100% that there is vast ignorance concerning Middle Eastern history, even in modern times, but unfortunately facts alone won't solve the problem.

There's another aspect to this, and I'm sure you understand what it is: regardless of all the PLO terrorism and lies, the extremism of Hamas, the catastrophe of the Intifada, all the "no, no and no" history, and regardless of the fact that some Arab factions and Iran are and have been outright genocidal in their threats and refuse to reconcile with Israel - or so far even recognize Israel as a Jewish state and homeland and also the history of the Mandate, the creation of Jordan etc - the situation is the situation.

Pretending it isn't there won't solve the problem.

Believe me I wish it would.

And, it would be one thing if the only people involved were the Palestinians on the West Bank and Gaza, but, due to the Palestinians' hereditary status as refugees, there are now millions of "refugees" and this is aggravating the problem further.

I feel very strongly that the Arab states need to help on this issue too. If the ROR situation were to be dealt with realistically, and also the dubious need for UNRWA 60 years after the fact, I think a major part of the problem would be solved.

However, even if that were the case, that still leaves the Palestinians in Judea and Samaria and of course Gaza which is a whole 'nother ball of wax.

What is to become of them and their dreams?

Regardless of history, facts, our historic claims to the land, the Palestinians are real people, real human beings, and their fate is important not only to Israel and to Jews in general, but also to the stability of the region as a whole.

The debate is so incredibly skewed, it's beyond a fantasist's furthest imaginings.

One general marker and indicator in this vein can be considered in the fact that while Pali Arabs have built their mosque on the site of the second temple, Medina, deemed Islam's second most holy site - was initially a Jewish city (Yathrib), not a Muslim and not even an Arab city.

Perspective.

Iow, because Islam and Arab supremacism jointly serves imperialist designs while Israeli and other Jews content themselves with limited boundaries for their nation/state, the Christian Amanpours of the world accept it all as a fait accompli and allow themselves to speak from that putatively "impartial" perspective.

Not sure I'm conveying what I wish to convey, but hopefully I am.

s/b Christiane Amanpour

Mr.nap comes agian with a skrwed up IQ test, no wonder that the end results of this test lead to wrongly thinking your IQ is high about palestian.

the first question in the IQ test is.
how many time is jeruslim mentioned in the quran.?

ofcourse I wont take part in this stupid test. but lets follow logically.

before...they used to use WHAT IS WRITTEN IN THE quran.
NOW....they use WHAT IS NOT WRITTEN in the quran.

I can follow this logic+ I got it long time ago that logic is lost with those people.

--------------------------

I have a nice test for you.

WHERE IS YOUR TEMPLE? AND WHY DIDNT THE ZIONEST LEADERS IN THE TURN OF THE CENTURY DIDNT TELL YOU THE TRUTH.....WHICH IS THIS LAND IS A LAND WITH PEOPLE AND A LAND WITHOUT A TEMPLE!

before leaving zionest in a mess that all people are suffering of.

merdockhi mentality is like the mentality of a russian mafia (I WILL steele you and shut up).
only lies.

like the latest lie by danny elon
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8ryiyItVpc

prince turki refused to sit in the table he sat in because of two resones.
1) because of his small chair act with turkish embassadore
2) because he said in this meeting that saudia arabia never gave money to the PA. prince turki responded that KSA gave 500 million $ in the last ten years. to help cover the destruction and poverity and troubles caused by israel. (this is not including money promissed to the quartret led by Tony bliar, which may reach a billion)

and after shaking hands, dany says that there is hope there is hope. Hope for what? bwahahha. saudia doesnt need israel. saudia is a leader in the region and it tries to solve the troubles zionest bough to the region by their mobs from europe.

if you want to raise your IQ on the issue .......try to avoide the likes of mordokie keder and his mob mentality.

Peace through truth and facts not through dreams and killing.

Arabian, the walls of our temple are in Jerusalem, where the people go to pray.

The Western Wall is some of what remains of the second Temple, and it is underneath the church and the mosque in Jerusalem, which is our most sacred city.

Why do you ask such questions? You know the answer to this.

Also, if you know this history, and I am sure you do, you also know that Jewish people have lived in the land of Israel and even in Arabia since ancient times.

Indeed, Mohammed had much knowledge of the Jewish books and of our prophets.

Also you are misinterpreting the quote, "a land without a people," first place this isn't accurately stated as you have written it; and secondly, it wasn't the Jews who said this in the first place, but Europeans.

So, please stop blaming this on us.

In any case this isn't why we came home to Israel. We came home to Israel because it is where we are from, but also because people were trying to kill us (and they almost succeeded).

It is a fact though that the area was very lightly populated in the late 19th, early 20th centuries, that the Sultan of the Ottomans had actually imported tens of thousands of people to the area of Israel because it was so poor and empty during the 19th century - though there were people there of course.

But also it is important to know that the Hashemite Prince Faisel, a great man, believed the Jews would add greatly to the Arab world, and also that there would always be plenty of land, as the Arabs are rich in land.

Please read:

http://www.azure.org.il/article.php?id=517&page=all

I agree, it is better to have historical facts and not dreams, and also to stop blaming each other for things especially if they didn't happen; and also to start respecting each other.

You say, Saudia doesn't need Israel but I think, if you have some respect for the innovations and creativity of Israel you might come to a different conclusion. Don't we all need each other?

Also, please respect our history as we respect yours.

Thank you.

Also, for the record, I was very upset that the Turkish minister was insulted.

It was very stupid and unnecessary.

But also, the Turkish president said some terrible and untrue things to Shimon Peres at Davos, and this wasn't good manners either.

Also, they are showing movies in Turkey which portray Jewish people as evil, and this isn't right. It's sad too because the Turkish people have always been friends to the Jews.

So, maybe people can now go back to being better friends again, since we are sorry that the minister was insulted and people have apologized.

Why is it that only Jews are willing to give up what is rightfully theirs ?

Yes, peace is a laudable goal and objective...but name one nation on this earth that has ever willfully given up large swathes of its territory for peace. All of the nations of this world today and throughout history have fought tooth and nail for that which is theirs. Why should we be any different ? Why should we give up a single inch of our patrimony ?

Look at the PA and Hamas...do you really think that all they want is "part" of that which they think is rightfully theirs ? They want ALL of it. Why ? Because they are NORMAL. Because they are free of this complex..this disease ..which a lot of jews seem to possess. Hell, this land does not even truly belong to them and yet they could not even imagine giving an inch of it to dirty kafir Jews

Why should we have to care what the Goys of this world think of us ? Why do we have to be good "house-Jews" and give up that which is ancestrally ours ?
Well I for one do not care about any of the nations of this world...because most of these (if not all) don't give a piss about Jews.I have over 2 thousand years of history backing up that last statement. We are a far cry from our ancestors who rebelled against the Romans stubbornly refusing to give up their sovereignty.Our ancestors were "normal". I guess 2000 years of exile has cowed us into this neurotic bipolar nation we have today.

Reality is what you make of it. The only reason that a greater Israel does not exist today is because we care too much about how we are perceived by others. Any other nation would have flattened the so called "Palestinians" and have taken that which is rightfully theirs.

Finally, a lot of you seem to forget that the majority of these Arabs who make claim to our land are Muslims. Pick up a Koran and read it.
Just read it. If the contents don't convince you that a two state solution is a dream...well continue taking those Prozacs...la vie en rose...so beautiful no ?

I on the other hand will continue to hope to see the realization of one Jewish land and one nation...

Do not expect Arabian to answer any questions based on historical records or facts. His is always an argument of contempt and denial of truth. Where he got the idea that this is a proper way to deal with questions that demand verifiable facts is anybody's guess.

Has anyone ever wondered why Muslims chose that very site on which to erect their "third holiest Mosque"?

"Before Jerusalem came under the control of Muslims in 638, it was widely understood that al-Aqsa mosque is the same as David's sanctuary. When Caliph Umar ibn al-Khattāb (580-644) was given the key to the city by the Patriarch of Jerusalem, Sophronius, he signed with him a treaty that is known as the "Covenant of Omar" and he later asked the Patriarch of Jerusalem to show him what Umar spelled out as "Masjid Dawood" (Mosque of David). This was called David's sanctuary or prayer niche (mihrab Dawud), in the Qur'an (38:21). David chose the site on which Solomon built his temple. It was an abandoned place and abused by the Romans and the Church at the time. The Patriarch took him to the door of the sanctuary which was almost blocked due to the trash that was placed at the door. Umar looked left and right and said: “Allah is Great, I swear by the one who holds my soul in his hand that this is the Mosque of David which the prophet of Allah described to us after his night journey.” The Caliph Umar started cleaning up the place. He asked Ka'ab al-Ahbar (كعب الأحبار), a Jewish Rabbi who had converted to Islam and came with Umar from Medina, to guide him to the place of the Rock. Umar used his cloths to remove the trash covering the Rock, and other Muslims did what Umar was doing. After cleaning up the place, Umar went to the al-Mihrab (a chamber inside the Mosque where the Imam usually stands) and started praying and reading Surat Sad from Quran."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Aqsa_Mosque

The only reason, the one and only reason, for the location of the Al-Aksa mosque was that it was the place holiest to Jews. Why would Mohamad choose to visit the place in his dreams? What made this place a destination worthy of his night flights?

There is a reason why Arabian will not answer the questions put to him. He has no answers except that sentiment of entitlement which too many Muslims everywhere seem to take as their right: that wherever a Muslim sets his foot becomes sacred Muslim ground. Thus they have a claim to Spain, to Judea, to Jerusalem, usurping and possibly erasing, all history that preceded their presence.

"Also, for the record, I was very upset that the Turkish minister was insulted."

It was the Turkish ambassador to Israel, not minister.

It was indeed a very stupid thing, not because the Turks do not deserve to be snubbed but because it was unseemly for an Israeli politician to stoop to that level. Besides, political snubs have to done in such subtle and insidious way as to leave the snubbee in doubt while it achieves its objective.

Bill Clinton's snubbing of Netanyahu was well done. Message delivered without actual proof that anything at all had happened.

I always had a certain affection for Disraeli's wisdom in this matter:

"He has to learn that petulance is no sarcasm, and that insolence is not invective"

Lieberman, alas, is no Disraeli.

Sophia, Both you and Eitan are wrong - again.

Not "everyone" wants peace. Or rather the Arabs do want 'peace', but it's the peace of Jews in their graves and the total 'peace' of victory that they want.

The Arabs see any 'agreement' as being just one stop further to gain total control over the Middle East and later, the world. Why can't you understand that? Why do you insist on ignoring the plain meaning of what the Arabs and Iran say?

H&P, Happy and Proud and Correct.

Sophia, your big mistake is thinking that Arabs (Orientals as the vile edward said called them) think like Westerners.

You think that the same lofty values that define Western civilization, apply to Arabs. You are so wrong. Soak in the videos of imams, children's TV shows, translations of Arab rallies to their bretheren.

Symbols are very important to Arabs/Muslim. Cartoons of a "prophet" result in deadly riots.

Respond to arabs buring American and Israeli flags by burning Arab/Muslim flags, especially a saudi or hamass flag and hit 'em where it hurts. Payback. Destroy arabs/muslim symbols to get their goat.

Sophia:
Listen. If there were any way to keep the land, peacefully and without becoming a minority in Israel, without oppressing the Palestinians, I'd be the first to endorse it.

But I think this is impossible. Am I wrong?
- - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Yes.
The demographic argument has been trumped by reality - both the reality of falsified Pali birth statistics, and the reality of tents of thousands of mostly young West Bankers leaving every year since the "occupation" was rolled back - and the Palis found themselves living in another thuggish Arab kleptocracy.

Plus the reality that surrender of the central Samarian mountains - which overlook the coastal plain, and are just a 30-minute drive from the Mediterranean - is unthinkable without a real "partner for peace". (this penny has dropped for most Israelis - see below on the electorate)

Sophia, it's one thing to cling to hope - quite another to cling to... what? A reason for self-righteous handwringing?

Further:
And as far as "the Israeli voter" is concerned, aren't people actually widely dispersed across the political spectrum?

I don't think the far right can pretend to represent a plurality, even, let alone all the voters.
- - - - - - - - -
Reality, reality, reality.

Like a certain sort of "progressive" - you seem to have a problem with reality that contradicts your pet positions.

The bloc associated with the 2-state plan SHRANK drastically in the last election.

In particular, any electoral bounce that Barak and Livni expected to receive from "Cast Lead" never materialized - because many Israelis saw these two peaceniks has having snatched defeat from the jaws of victory by not reoccupying Gaza. This confirmed for most Israelis that Oslo-era land-for-peace schemes were a dead end, and those pushing these "solutions" were spineless.

Kadima only nosed out Likud because Meretz and Labor voters responded to a panicked last-minute "anyone but Bibi" ad campaign and switched their votes. But the dovish center-left was like a girl in a mini-skirt - tug it down here, it rides up there. The votes poured into Kadimah reduced Labor to a minor party, and eliminated Meretz.

The other parliamentary players knew this - which is why none of them formed a government with Kadimah.

The post-Oslo parties of the patriotic center now easily add up to a strong majority of Knesset seats, and a "plurality" of Jewish votes.

... and isn't it interesting that you now talk of a "plurality" when the original Oslo accords passed by a single vote, after arm-twisting and bribery? This is similar to the Democrat's claim that Obama was elected with a "sweeping mandate" when in fact he had the same margin as previous presidents.

There is far more support for Bibi-Liberman's new hard line than there EVER was for Oslo.

So, Ben-David, in view of your statements about the demographics on the West Bank, you have no problem offering the Palestinians citizenship in Israel?

Noga, apologies, you're correct, it was the ambassador.

Also correct - Lieberman is no Disraeli and boy do we need Disraelis.

Also of course your comment about Mohammed and Jerusalem, I was thinking about this also but you state it well. Learned Muslims of course would agree with you.

Eddie - you underestimate the Arabs. Your view of them is totally dark.

Also, calling Arabs "orientals" - good lord man don't you realize that is what people like Henry Ford called US?

People slandered Jews, in Europe and in the United States, with exactly the same term, saying the we "orientals" pervert "Western Culture" or Americans or Europeans or Germans (insert name, place or religion here).

The way forward isn't to be as bigoted as the people who've oppressed Jews.

Arabs are as individual as anybody else, they are PEOPLE and quite capable of thinking like - well - like those OTHER Orientals - Jews - not to mention Westerners, not that this is always a good thing. For example SOME Westerners, like Henry Ford, are total asshat bigots.

THAT was the point of Said's "Orientalism," the fact that Westerners stereotype, project visions inside their own heads, rather than seeing the people who are in front of them - which isn't exactly news.

Let me ask you something: do you think the Arabs' supposedly "oriental" (Jewish?) mindset keeps them from flying planes, studying science or creating modern buildings or learning new things?

Can Jews fly planes and invent new technology? Are we "orientals"?

Yes yes and yes.

So give me a f***ing break.

Meanwhile, I think you should study Arab architecture, music, calligraphy, poetry, develop an appreciation for their language - and then tell me Arabs can't "think" like "other people."

arrrrrrggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

Sophia, "Orientalism" is the name of the vile edward saids book.

You don't like it, take it up with his publisher.

Is saids categorizing arabs/muslims as "orientals" as wrong as jimmy carter WPE calling Israel an apartheid state?

Has the carter center published a front webpage apology?

My view of arabs/muslims is colored by their words and actions.

Sophia still wringing her hands:
So, Ben-David, in view of your statements about the demographics on the West Bank, you have no problem offering the Palestinians citizenship in Israel?
- - - - - - - - - - -
It has nothing to do with demographics.

These people are not Israel's responsibility.

Despite attempts by lefties to rewrite history, the 1967 war was a defensive war, fought by Israel after 2 decades of terrorist attack from Judea and Samaria.

Considering that history, and the unclear status of this area - illegally seized by Jordan, which has since backed away from branding itself as the "Palestinian state" - Israel is entitled under international law to annex any lands necessary for its defense, and to clear it of implacably belligerent populations.

If foolish left-wing Israelis delayed this necessary transfer of populations for 30 years - and these former Jordanians learned in the interim to call themselves "Palestinian" - that changes nothing.

Similar transfers - of much larger scale - took place in Cyprus, and on the India/Pakistan border after similar post-colonial partition. Many more millions of ethnic Germans were expelled from the Ukraine and Russia after centuries of living there.

Nobody said boo - in fact, the architect of the Cyprian transfer won the Nobel peace prize.

I know this runs counter to the "it's all our fault" stream of leftie thought. But Israel has no legal - or moral! - obligation to take in its attackers.

Demographic evidence indicates that when it happens - and it will, if only at the bloody end of another abortive attempt at a 2-state solution - there will be far fewer Palis moving into Jordan than Pali PR would lead us to believe.

"(Where is the last time you heard about white phosphorous)"

"Brostrom's father, David, a retired Army colonel who lives in 'Aiea and pushed for a new investigation into Wanat, said another line of inquiry being pursued is whether his son's unit, the 173rd Airborne Brigade Combat Team, misused white phosphorus in Afghanistan.

White phosphorus, nicknamed "Willy Pete," is a controversial combustible: It can burn down to the bone. The U.S. military said coalition forces used white phosphorus in compliance with international law, for marking targets, illumination, destroying unoccupied bunkers and other uses, but that it was not intended for use against people."

http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/20100207/COLUMNISTS32/2070357/More+info+expected+on+battle+of+Wanat

____________

"Houthi fighters say that Riyadh regularly strikes Yemeni villages and indiscriminately targets civilians. According to the fighters, Saudis are using toxic materials, including white phosphorus bombs, against civilians in northern Yemen."

http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=116828§ionid=351020201

__________

"British forces use white phosphorus artillery rounds in Afghanistan, but not as an anti-personnel weapon. Instead, the weapon is deployed to provide smoke-cover to help extract forces under fire or to hide the movement of soldiers from the enemy."

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article7011577.ece

Paraphrasing the resident islamoron...

(Where is the last time you heard about beheading, suicide bombing, jihad, hijacking, pirates, honor killing, FGM, fatwas, cartoon riots, bus and underground bombing, bombing of Pan Am 103, kassam rockets)?

1) Burger king
2) Target
3) ISlamofascism