Wednesday, March 24, 2010
[This post, by The Brothers of Judea, is crossposted from CiF Watch.]
One of our favorite bloggers, MJ Rosenberg, has come out with another exemplary work. His latest blog post on the HP, AIPAC Conference: Who Are These People?, is a paragon of the kind of self-assured, self-promotional writing we've come to expect. Mr. Rosenberg, who is Jewish, has taken it upon himself to inform all of us what American Jews are really like (hint: they are nothing like the people at AIPAC).
Mr. Rosenberg attended the AIPAC conference in Washington D.C., and I did not. However, I believe I can still challenge some of his experiences there, or at least point out the fact he did not provide adequate evidence to support his sweeping statements. Let's examine one:
"AIPAC can be summed up in the words of an American college student on their promotional video. And the sentiment is repeated over and over again..."I love Israel, and I love the US-Israel" relationship." Get it. American kids, born and bred in America -- whose grandparents and grandchildren are or will be Americans -- love America because America is Israel's friend...Who are these people? Have you ever met a Jewish college kid like that?" (emphasis added)
Mr. Rosenberg has taken the statement "I love Israel and I love the US-Israel relationship" and simply made up the "fact" that these American students love America because America is friends with Israel. Such a statement is simply absurd and has no factual evidence to back it up. In fact, it is worse than a lie, it is the classic accusation of dual loyalty that has plagued Jews since time immemorial and of which the Dreyfus Affair is the most famous example. Mr. Rosenberg is accusing this college student (and AIPAC in general) of disloyalty to America solely because the student "loves Israel". But the lies don't end here.
"Why do they scream, as one, over one poor captured Israeli soldier, Gilad Shalit, but give no indication of caring very much about the 4000 Americans killed In Iraq and Afghanistan. (Of course, most of them were for the Iraq war and are now pushing for crippling Iran sanctions that could lead to war)."
As I said, I was not at the AIPAC Conference. But unless Mr. Rosenberg went around and interviewed a significant sample of the people there, he cannot make the claim that these American Jews don't care about the Americans killed in Iraq and Afghanistan. Here again, we see the baseless accusation of disloyalty to America based solely on the fact that these American Jews support Israel. I've always felt that support for Israel is a bi-partisan issue (and Congress' voting record supports that point of view), and AIPAC lobbies Republicans and Democrats alike. To make sweeping statements about the AIPACers' views on the Iraq and Afghanistan wars shows a willingness to stereotype that seems to cross the line into dishonest journalism.
"So why are we the way we are? And why is the AIPAC fringe like it is? I'll tell you one thing. It is not primarily because we are better Americans. It is because we are better Jews, even better Zionists. They are...something else."
It's entirely possible that some of the people at AIPAC are less than kind when it comes to the issue of Palestinian suffering. In fact, some of them are probably downright racist. But this kind of rhetoric is exactly the kind of thing we could expect to see from the far-left or far-right spokespeople: "If you don't agree with us, you're not American!" It is true that 80% of American Jews voted for Obama, but I could also point out Obama came off as a pretty strong pro-Israel candidate before he was elected. To declare himself and "American Jews" to be better, and different, from AIPAC, Mr. Rosenberg showcases the kind of arrogance and moral extremism he claims to be condemning AIPAC for.
In this article, Mr. Rosenberg showcases two different points of view, his and AIPAC's. He claims, without any evidence, that his point of view is the mainstream one and AIPAC's is the "fringe". But he offers no evidence to this conclusion beyond his own colossal arrogance.
Mr. Rosenberg challenges the reader at the beginning of the article to call him a "self-hating Jew". I don't think he's a self-hating Jew, it's clear he loves himself and the kind of Jew he is. But I do think he's something else entirely. At worst, he's an anti-Semitic Jew, willing to accuse other Jews of disloyalty and inhumanity without any evidence or doubt. At best, he's a foolish dreamer, unable to understand why the whole world doesn't see things the way he does and unaware that his words provide fodder for the anti-Semites among his readership. Good luck, Mr. Rosenberg, I hope someday your mind will open to other points of view.
UPDATE: MJ Rosenberg has removed the first paragraph I quoted above, about the college student loving America only because of the US-Israel relationship. Baby steps, Mr. Rosenberg, baby steps.
Who does this fool think he is.
The dual loyalty canard is especially dangerous. And it is 100% antisemitic.
Shame on him.
It seems to me that many American (and otherwise) Jews, do have dual loyalties.
Many Muslims have dual loyalties, they are loyal to the Ummah, often moreso than to the countries and cultures they have immigrated to.
I even have sympathies and loyalties to Ireland, and my folks all immigrated over here from the 1850 to about 1910.
Dismissing dual loyalties analysis as anti semitic, seems to be silencing criticism, as Jews are also accused of often. And not always without merit.
I was at the AIPAC conference. Mr. Rosenberg was either in the men's room or busy grinding an ax. AIPAC is very mainstream. To use the term "fringe" is absurd. Republicans and Democrats were equally represented as speakers and delegates. Support for the US troops was expressed frequently and loudly. There was open concern for the welfare of the Palestinian people and for a two-state solution, as long as it was one which provided for the security of Israel. AIPAC members are fully capable of loving both the US and Israel because both are beacons of freedom in a very dark world and they have long had a special relationship, supporting each other against some pretty awful enemies from WWII when the Arabs sided with the Nazis, through the cold war, when the Arabs were supported by the Soviets, up through today. As far as college students, there were over 1300 college and high school students at the conference. I don't know what kind of students Mr. Rosenberg was expecting -- maybe the kind who think of Israel as an apartheid state..? And support for crippling sanctions has one goal: to keep Iran from destroying Israel, as well as other nations that A-jad has on his sick agenda. Perhaps Mr. Rosenthal went to a different conference, or perhaps he only watched through his left eye.
Challenged people to call him a self-hating Jew? Sounds like the Jewish version of the typical canard-slinger's pre-emtpive gambit:
"1. I know people will call me anti-Semitic for saying this, but
2. [Insert anti-Zionist statement with strong anti-Semitic overtones, prefereably with gross distortions of Israeli history and current Israeli politics -- e.g. ultra-Orthodox settlers, or Israel's leaders looking at non-Jews as subhuman because the Jewish religion teaches that Jews are the chosen race, or Jewish control of the US government, etc.]
3. Finish with "but htat's how the Jews/Zionists/Israel-firsters intimidate people into keeping silent about Israel's apartheid and racist actions."
It's just that MJ has now subsituted self-hating Jew for anti-Semite.
EV,
Many Muslims have dual loyalties,
Wrong. They have only one loyalty and that is to Islam. If they have a loyalty to the US then they are basically apostates, according to their clerics.
So for the "asaJew" types, Theobald Jews and antisemites that makes them much better.
EVil, the islamofascist major hasan who murdered 13 American soldiers in Ft. Hood, did he have dual loyalties?
Do the USS Liberty troofers demand justice for the sailors who died in the USS Cole islamofascist attack? Clearly, NO.
BTW EVil, your timothy mcveigh, how many people did he kill when he and probably other like minded "white euros", bombed the Murrah Federal building in Oklahoma City?
I had read that Israel early on opposed the Iraq war, and made no secret of the fact to the American government. Israel considered Iran to be the threat, not Iraq. I don't know about the Israeli population, however, and I don't know how they felt after the war started versus when it was just a plan.
Also, this "dual loyalty" issue is a canard. Why were there no accusations of dual loyalty when Irish-Americans were supporting the IRA? Many people have multiple loyalties based on nostalgia or a sense of roots or shared heritage and culture, but that doesn't mean that they're disloyal to the US.
As my dad always said, "we're Americans first, Jews second." I'm sure he wasn't the only one who felt that way. Yet he was extremely pro-Zionist, though anti-rightwing Zionist.
The point is Joanne, that dual loyalties exist, and Jews have them too.
Its not anti semitic to point out dual loyalties of Jews anymore than it is Islamophobic to point out dual loyalties of Muslims.
Berating people for thought crimes befuddles minds and leads to unclear thinking. Yet that is exactly what Hate Crimes legislation is designed to do. Put a damper on free thought and speech.
"Dual Loyalties"?
The key word is LOYAL.
It's the DISLOYAL, benedict arnold, jihad johnny, jihad jane, "major" hasan, soviet agent robert hansen, that sully the reputations of "white euros".
EV,
You always come across as trying to insinuate disloyalty into Jewish or Israeli behaviour so when you cry about the fate of the Euro-whites it doesn't get the response you want given the historic context.
By the way I witnessed a scene in South Africa way back in the 60s when some Afrikaaners (people of Dutch descent) cornered a Jewish person and asked him what he would do if a fight broke out between SA and Israel.
The Jew replied that given the attitude of the government and the general dislike of Jews and the manner in which they were harassed politically it would be stupid of him to align with those who hate him.
By the way I should have included in the first paragraph of #10 that whenever these discussions take place and questions are asked it is always stated that the US does what's best in its interests but simultaneously denying the Israelis the right to do what's in her best interests.
What should we call that?
Cynic, So you think that Euro Christians hate Jews and treat them poorly and are therefore disloyal. Is that the message you wish to convey?
Because it seems to me that there is little that the Euro Christian can do to change that attitude, because Euro Christians will be held to account for historical guilt. So then the obvious move is to distrust Jews as disloyal. And indeed Jews have shown themselves (as Eddie pointed out) to be attracted in large numbers to Marxism, Communism, fellow travelling Leftistism).
So if there is nothing that Euro Christians can do to change the past, and Jews refuse to forgive. Then we are at the heart of the matter arent we.
Jews are hostile to Euro Christians, by and large, and nothing is going to change that. They may be the enemy of my enemy, but are not my friend. They have no sympathy for Euro Christians and think that they need to make reparations and be punished for past historical crimes, perceived or real.
EVil, you just can't face the fact that you can't lord over Black people, Asians, Jews, women anymore.
Maybe that's why "white euros" see islamofascists as a group that represents "the best" of the good ole days.
Eddie, do you think that Blacks, Asians, Jews and women should now lord over White Euro Christian Males?
Payback time.
Because I get the distinct feeling that many of these groups are hostile to me and mine in that ugly way.
So I really have no incentive to support them in their attempt to treat me poorly.
Once that sinks into the larger population, (and Islam is the boulder that opens eyes. Then I see that we are in for some very ugly times in the near future.
It behooves the groups you listed to watch out, with all the special privileges, anti Christian bigotry, favored hiring and preferences, and wealth redistribution. The message is coming through loud and clear. Also it establishes those practices as acceptable use of government power. In effect, it legitmizes Apartheid South Africa, the only differnce being that the preferences and bigotry were aimed at different groups.
Anyways, this is your last comment reworked to show you its thrust.
You are just mad that Israeli Jews cant lord over Palestinian Muslims and Christans anymore.
You see how that works Eddie.
Wow.
I was wondering when we'd be accused of "lording it over Christians."
It was ok wasn't it EV as long as the propaganda just portrayed Israelis as lording it over Muslims.
Your point of view is hopeless, absolutely hopeless and you have fallen for the basest and most idiotic agitprop.
No I havent. I was showing Eddie the ugly nature of his comment. Th Left uses both versions of the same construct to attack me and mine and Israeli Jews. Eddie favors one though, doesnt he?
My last comment was merely illustrative. You should be upbraiding Eddie, however, I think you agree with him.
Oh the irony!
EVil, if Israelis having the firepower to destroy attacking armies is "lording" over you,
then may your inferiority complex continue to grow.
It's clear that the "uk" has completely surrendered to their new islamic masters.
The largest mosque in europe is being built in londonistan, "whilst" saudi arabia prohibits the construction of ANY non-muslim house of worship within its borders.
Those "white euro" twits certainly are obedient dhimmis.
"white euros" releasing the convicted bomber of Pan Am 103, on "compassionate" grounds, certainly is acting like a good dhimmi.
Even the archbishop of cantebury said that adopting aspects of sharia law would be good.
neville chamberlain would have been proud of current day dhimmi "uk".
http://www.boycottscotland.com
EV,
Cynic, So you think that Euro Christians hate Jews and treat them poorly and are therefore disloyal. Is that the message you wish to convey?
No EV. No I don't think that and I think that you are not that stupid as to twist the meaning I made. The disloyal comes before the Jew looks to some other place he can escape to. He has had centuries of experience.
For being hounded, harangued and harried politically and cursed as being disloyal is part and parcel of their world today is it any wonder that many Jews look to Israel as a bolt hole.
Looking at the treatment Jews are getting from your elites on campuses etc., in Europe (especially Britain where they are also getting beaten up in their houses and harried in the streets like in Paris), CANADA, USA where they are not permitted to voice their opinions freely or present their point of view while the Whites turn a blind eye - Pastor Martin Niemöller's words come to mind right now.
Of course you assign collective guilt to all with Jewish names instead of being specific about who has actually been disloyal to you.
Of course you don't attack the Galloways and the religion they were born into nor their collective clans; just the individual. Now that is hypocritical.
Cynic the Left is my enemy too. Look at the treatment that Ann Coulter got at the Uni of Ottawa.
The problem is Cynic that Jews (and the Left) dont hold individuals to account. The hold white Euro Christian males as being collectively guilty, not just for current perceived injustices, but for historical perceived or real injustices.
So you can blame me and mine all you want, while not looking at you and yours. But that isnt any better than what you claim, I am doing.
It is hard to break through A.) Jewish culturally reinforced persceptions and B.) the Leftwing indoctrination that most receive in their time in the education system, especially Uni, where Western Euro Christian Male Peoples are villified and put on trial, and found guilty as charged.
I think Sophia sees US history like Howard Zinn, a series of struggles and triumphs over the evil oppressors (which "happen" to be white Euro Christian males), by a gaggle of minority groups and poor people.
She fundamentally does not challenge that view of history.
She gets very upset though now that the Israel Jews are playing the part of the white Western European male, to the oppressed Palestinian minority and the poor Arab peoples.
But she cant put 2 and 2 together. Both she moreso than Eddie who I perceive to just be lashing out(though he is certainly familiar with the narrative and not ashamed to deploy it as a rhetorical device), and you to a certain degree, cling to this double standard, where Jews are Christlike, and Euro Christians are the ultimate oppressor evil in the world.
Im fighting these Leftwingers with every fiber of my being.
The Israeli Jewish Left has revealed itself to be just as treacherous and disloyal to the state of Israel, as any other Western Leftist.
However "these Leftwingers" that I am fighting include the vast majority of American Jews, who are the farthest left ethnic group in the United states for the last 50 to 100 years.
That may make you uncomfortable, but its the unvarnished truth.
I think its important to have this conversation.
EVil, you seem to be too dense.
It's your vaunted "white christian euros", REAL euros, not FAKE wceuro trash like yourself, the "white christian euros" with near ZERO population growth, who are surrendering to islamists, who are ashamed of their own culture (some wce culture is shameful), tolerating islamism, tolerating islamofascism, tolerating islamosupremecism, tolerating anti-Semitism.
EVil,you only have yourself, you and yours to blame, for the impending collapse of europe.
I also believe that the "uk" should transfer all its WMDs to the US for safekeeping because the "uk" is becoming as unstable as PakiSHTan.
http://www.boycottscotland.com
Jews don't hold people to account? WTF?
Also the Israeli Left isn't a traitor to Israel. For pete's sake where do you get this stuff.
The Left built Israel. Even today some of the strongest communities in Israel including hi tech producers are kibbutzim which are communal.
Indeed I could make a strong argument that the real traitors to Israel are the right who won't compromise and work for peace.
But I won't make that argument because the nature of democracy is diversity of opinion. Having a different opinion doesn't make a person a traitor.
Fact: you don't have the vaguest idea what you are talking about. You're just lashing out angrily at perceived enemies who now include both the Jews and the Left and I really wonder why you post here at all.
Actually I think you're just baiting us.
Also Howard Zinn made a strong case for a view of history that includes little people.
History isn't just made by the wealthy and powerful you know.
Eddie, its not Europeans that are destroying Israel. Its the Israeli Jewish Left and their gaggle of minority groups that they ally with that are destroying Israel. The 5th column.
We in the Euro Christian lands have the same situation, with the Left and a bunch of disloyal 5th column minority groups working together with our foreign enemies to destroy us. Unfortunately, the vast majority of American Jews are part of this coaltion of 5th columnists.
Howard Zinn is an American hating Leftwinger...not a champion of the oppressed. He is also an Israel hating Leftwinger, and not a champion of the Palestinian oppressed. He is a Leftwing propagandist not a historian, villifying certain groups, and stirring up group hatred. He should be charged with Hate Speech.
Its time the Euro Christians started worrying less what people think about them, and start protecting themselves, their culture and peoples, and looking out for their interests. Because nobody on the Left and their gaggle of minority groups that support them, gives a damn about them. Time to start looking out for yourself.
Im pretty sure that if Howard Zinn had written The People's History of Israel, which covered the struggle of oppressed minorities against the dastardly Jews, including the Nakba....that she would see it as anti Semitic in nature and deligitimizing the state of Israel....instead of defending it as a strong case for history that includes the little people.
But she is all for the deligitimizing the state of the USA and the demonizing of white Euro Christians males. That is just good inclusive history!
white christian euro leffists/socialists do a bang up job demonizing europe on their own.
See the bbc or any mainstream euro rag.
And Jews and other minority groups love to ally with those self hating Euro Christians. Couldnt have political power and control in the US without them.
Self hatred is rewarded these days, and white Euro Christian people who dont hate themselves or their culture or peoples, are oppressor fascists, racist teabaggers and all manner of ugly epithets, but more importantly they are punished through legal harrasment, violent assault, and negative economic consequences, lack of promotion, firing, not hiring, which is the real kicker.
People who preach hate for white people have gained power in the West, and they are now preaching hate for the white European Jews of and the state of Israel.
Sophia supports one, but not the other. And then gets all huffy, that somehow the Jews got on the wrong side of the ledger.