The feds and politicians have full-bore abdicated their responsibility as applied to the border issue; Arizona has responded in an entirely appropriate manner (the law evidences no sign of Constitutional abrogation) and their have been NO instances of enforcements of the law which evidence any such abrogation either. None.

If you think Arizona's immigration policies are odious, bigoted, and biased, just look at Israeli immigration law and enforcement, Mr. Foxman.

Do you honestly have to ask why ADL is worried about Arizona's immigration law?

Good heavens.

Why not just put yellow stars on everybody who LOOKS like he/she MIGHT be an illegal immigrant.

After all - the law essentially permits anybody who LOOKS like he/she MIGHT be an illegal immigrant to be challenged and their papers demanded on no basis whatsoever other than their appearance.

I cannot believe this website is defending Arizona on this issue, or at any rate doesn't understand ADL's unease about it.

Secondly - the resident BNP/KKK member attacks Abe Foxman on Israel.

Screw you.

What is happening to this website?

Congrats, Sophia. You're actually going farther than the ADL, using Holocaust symbolism, which the ADL itself is condemning!

I support 100% any reasonable effort to finally enforce our immigration laws, and the Arizona law is eminently reasonable. If this doesn't do it, then you may as well admit that you don't believe in any border enforcement whatsoever.

Can anyone name one country that has open borders???

Cuba? No.

The left wants to have open border for the US so millions can enter the US, overwhelm the social services of the US, with the goal of bringing down the US.

We can see how well socialism is working in greece, portugal, ireland - that's "white christian euros" for you EVil.

http://www.boycottscotland.com

I expect the "uk" to fail as well.

"Do you honestly have to ask why ADL is worried about Arizona's immigration law?" Sophia

Yes. It's an entirely responsible question, deserving of a responsible, well considered, probative answer that, in turn, reflects upon Constitutional precepts and likewise reflects upon a certain probity as applied to sovereignty, borders, the situation in still more general terms (e.g., employers hiring illegal aliens).

Further, citizens themselves are asked for their IDs in all manner of daily transactions, at a bank, a hotel and any number of other common, civil transactions, including such mild police stop when someone is going merely five or ten miles over the speed limit, occasionally, if rarely, even when they're J-walking.

"When a thing is said to be not worth refuting you may be sure that either it is flagrantly stupid—in which case all comment is superfluous—or it is something formidable, the very crux of the problem." Miguel de Unamuno, Spanish philosopher

Sophia:

Read the legislation. It doesn't say that at all.

Sophia, while Mr. Foxman is perusing Iraeili immigration law and enforcement you can peruse Mexican immigration law and enforcement.

I think we should adopt Mexican immigration law and enforcement practices and then anybody who calls someone a bigot for supporting it can point those moonbats to Mexico. Then the moonbats can attack Mexicans as bigoted, biased, xenophobic racists.

Indeed, it doesnt say that Daniel Brookline, but that wont stop Leftists like Sophia, from demonizing Euro nations and peoples. And she has the gall of being indignant when others do the same to Israeli Jews....lying about them and their motives and actions.

Really? It says you can stop a person on "reasonable suspicion," sue the police if in your opinion they don't do their jobs, ie arrest enough "suspicious people," etc. It's a recipe for abuse. It just about guarantees racial/ethnic profiling.

Meanwhile, I gotta say Charles Johnson has this right.

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/36273_A_Banner_Week_for_Right_Wing_Xenophobia

You guys see NOTHING wrong with this picture?

Should Mexican Americans and other hispanic Americans refuse to show their passports upon re-entering the US, because that is a 4th Amendment violation? Heck how about any American?

How about non American hispanics, is it a 4th Amendment violation to demand papers at entrace to the country? Is that the equivalent of sewing yellow stars on their clothing?

The only immigration enforcement that Sophia supports is that against "the other" in Israel and going after big business(which should be done, but not to the exclusion of other enforcemnt).

Have you no shame?

"Really? It says you can stop a person on "reasonable suspicion," sue the police if in your opinion they don't do their jobs, ie arrest enough "suspicious people," etc. It's a recipe for abuse. It just about guarantees racial/ethnic profiling."

You obviously dont understand what the legal definition of "lawful contact" is, or the legal definition of "reasonable suspicion." And like most Leftists, you probably dont care...even though it is jurisprudence since the 60s that has shaped these definitions to suit Leftwing concerns. But alas... It's those darn racist hatefilled white Euros again, damn them! ...discriminating against hispanic white Euro foreign nationals! How dare they! Its like Nazi gas chambers all over again. And you wonder why the same folks that side with Sophia on this, also are anti Zionist, anti Jewish, anti Israel?

You see nothing wrong with this poster at the violent rallies in support of illegal immigrants not being asked to show their papers. I dont think they understand the irony of the second sign.

http://www.moonbattery.com/illegal-alien-protest_01.jpg

http://www.moonbattery.com/illegal-alien-protest_03.jpg

Sophia is very upset that ethnic studies departments wont be able to demonize white Euro Christians anymore with this new law, preventing divisive hate speech and sedition from being taught and advocated in ethnic studies departments. That should tell you everything there is to know.

She never opposed Hate Speech laws that were designed to silence critics of other groups, only this one.

Your ruse is up, Sophia. The Western Left's hypocrisy is being exposed, which illuminates their high rhetoric as concealing their anti Westernism.

Gordon Brown let slip his contempt for indigenous English. His private sneer was caught on live mics. The ruse is up.

Can't you just take your time and make one big post?

Also, please try to be just a little deferential to Sophia. She does contribute material here. You can argue and have your views (obviously, I don't agree with Sophia on this, either), just please temper your delivery away from the personal.

Im sorry, Sophia gets upset when Israel and Israeli Jews are compared to Nazis. But she doesnt have a shred of decency not to do it to Arizona, or white Americans.

It pisses me off. That double standard.

That "picture," Sophia, does not reflect the law in question. That's why you were asked to articulate something in a more relevant and cogent manner.

The author of the current law is a Kris Kobach, a law prof at UMKC. See here at Volokh, which also links to a NYT article by Kobach.

Pointing to an outlier lawmaker in Arizona, whose zealousness is not reflected in the current law, is not illuminating.

Further, neither Charles Johnson nor you have added any commentary as applied to what should be done, in a positive sense. Unless, of course, you support open borders in some blatant or more quasi sense.

The final three graphs in Prof. Kobach's NYT piece reflects a fitting summary of what so many - Sophia, Charles Johnson, et al. - fail to address, emphases added:

"... Arizona is the ground zero of illegal immigration. Phoenix is the hub of human smuggling and the kidnapping capital of America, with more than 240 incidents reported in 2008. It’s no surprise that Arizona’s police associations favored the bill, along with 70 percent of Arizonans.

"President Obama and the Beltway crowd feel these problems can be taken care of with “comprehensive immigration reform” — meaning amnesty and a few other new laws. But we already have plenty of federal immigration laws on the books, and the typical illegal alien is guilty of breaking many of them. What we need is for the executive branch to enforce the laws that we already have.

"Unfortunately, the Obama administration has scaled back work-site enforcement and otherwise shown it does not consider immigration laws to be a high priority. Is it any wonder the Arizona Legislature, at the front line of the immigration issue, sees things differently?"

Oh well, continue with an accusatory, presumptive and one-sided rhetoric - while avoiding any accounting on the other side of the ledger. Shocked, I'm shocked ...

Charles Johnson isnt high on the credibility meter with his serial slandering of anti Islamizationists, and his linking to the zero credibility serial slandering Southern Poverty Law Center is a double scoop of steaming turd in a cup.

Sophia pronouncing on Arizona and its policies vis a vis illegal Mexican Nationals is like Baroness Tongue or Lauren Booth pronouncing on Israeli and its policies vis a vis the Palestinians.

Has Sophia no shame?

Written by a Mexican national, indeed a Mexican national who worked for Vicente Fox's administration as an advisor, by a Fredo Arias-King (in 2006), Immigration and Usurpation: Elites, Power, and the People’s Will (another racist, nativist, xenophobe!). It's a good four thousand words-plus and should be read as a whole, but an extended excerpt will summarize two or three of the more critical aspects:

"When I aided the foreign relations of presidential candidate and president-elect Vicente Fox back in 1999 and 2000, I met with almost 80 U.S. congressmen and senators during numerous trips and at several events. With just over 50 of them, my colleagues and I spoke about immigration in some depth, ... Of those 50 legislators, 45 were unambiguously pro-immigration, even asking us at times to "send more." This was true of both Democrats and Republicans."

[...]

"While Democratic legislators we spoke with welcomed the Latino vote, they seemed more interested in those immigrants and their offspring as a tool to increase the role of the government in society and the economy. Several of them tended to see Latin American immigrants and even Latino constituents as both more dependent on and accepting of active government programs and the political class guaranteeing those programs, a point they emphasized more than the voting per se. Moreover, they saw Latinos as more loyal and "dependable" in supporting a patron-client system and in building reliable patronage networks to circumvent the exigencies of political life as devised by the Founding Fathers and expected daily by the average American.

"Republican lawmakers we spoke with knew that naturalized Latin American immigrants and their offspring vote mostly for the Democratic Party, but still most of them (all except five) were unambiguously in favor of amnesty and of continued mass immigration (at least from Mexico)."

[...]

"One leading Republican senator over a period of months was advising us, through a mutual acquaintance, about which mechanisms to follow and which other legislators to lobby in order to ensure passage of the amnesty proposal. In the meantime, he would speak on television about the need to "militarize" the border. This senator was recently singled out by a taxpayer’s advocacy group as a leader in "pork"-related politics.

"Bill Richardson, who had served in Clinton’s cabinet and later became governor of New Mexico, kindly stopped to speak to our delegation at the Democratic National Convention in Los Angeles. He commented favorably to us: 'What do Hispanics want? Fully funded government programs!'"

[...]

"Those that have come out supporting amnesty are also associated with other attempts to undermine the Jeffersonian and Madisonian model of democracy. Sen. Arlen Specter, for instance, a leading supporter of amnesty, years ago proposed another bill that would have changed the outcome of elections based on quotas, whereby electoral outcomes could be changed by a federal judge.

"Some legislators had also mentioned to us (oftentimes laughing) how they had "defanged" or "gutted" anti-immigration bills and measures, by neglecting to fund this program or tabling that provision, or deleting the other measure, etc. "Yes, we passed that law, but it can’t work because we also…" was a usual comment to assuage the Mexican delegations."

[...]

"During the 18 months when I aided Fox’s foreign relations, in those meetings with what became the new Mexican elite I do not recall so many discussions about "what can we do to make tough decisions to reform Mexico," but rather more "how can we get more concessions from the United States." ... Paradoxically, as happens in co-dependent relations, a firm but polite defense of American interests by Washington would force the Mexican elites to act and in the end (surely after a brief period of acrimonious recriminations) would be beneficial for Mexico, much as the European Union’s tough accession laws force elites in lesser-developed aspiring members (Spain in the 1980s and Central European countries in the 1990s) to adopt painful and otherwise politically unfeasible reforms ..."

And yet, in lieu of engagement on such substantive, well reasoned grounds, from the left and left/Dems we are instead treated to name-calling, guilt-by-association and other weak-link forms of pseudo-argumentation, ad infinitum.

In a word, misology - in lieu of better grounded and more responsible forms of engagement.

I wonder if any of the commenters on this thread will be participating in the Boycott, Divest, & Sanction Arizona movement.

Heather McDonald, Praising Arizona: The state’s new immigration law is perfectly reasonable, but you wouldn’t know it from the New York Times, opening graph:

"Supporters of Arizona’s new law strengthening immigration enforcement in the state should take heart from today’s New York Times editorial blasting it. “Stopping Arizona” contains so many blatant falsehoods that a reader can be fully confident that the law as actually written is a reasonable, lawful response to a pressing problem. Only by distorting the law’s provisions can the Times and the law’s many other critics make it out to be a racist assault on fundamental American rights."

Of course Kikeman and the ADL oppose American sovereignty.

The Jew agenda is to destroy the Nations.

See, this is where you get, finally, when you don't stand up to racists.

ADL correctly speaks out against bigotry. This results in over the top attacks on him and also against me, in this very thread, on a site that stands against antisemitism and therefore against bigotry of all kinds.

Now, we have a freaking Nazi checking in, attacking Jews because ADL took a principled stance against bigotry, and accusing us, all Jews, of having an anti-American agenda.

I want you all to think about this very seriously.

Please note: this has nothing to do with the fact that Sol and I have a principled disagreement about immigration issues in general. So you'll know - it is perfectly possible to have polite, civil discussions about important issues.

But.

This particular discussion thread has become unbelievably ugly. The issues are not being discussed rationally; rather ad hominem attacks are being launched with little rationality.

The problem with the Arizona law and the nastiness of it does has to do with the vast potential it embraces to profile individuals based on nothing more than their appearance - ie - it is racist, it is probably unconstitutional because it deprives people of due process, and that is why ADL spoke out against it.

That is why it makes me uncomfortable too.

That makes Abe Foxman AND ME patriots. We support American ideals, we support the idea of Constitutional due process and also stand against racism of any kind.

We happen to believe in the Constitution and also in the great ideals of the United States of America, and that once we compromise those we have little left to defend.

Those of you who have viciously attacked both ADL and me ought to go have a nice quiet think about what lurks underneath the rock that's been overturned in this thread, because it has just crawled out.

Take a good look.

You can't blame anyone for this type of comment. That is unfair. Pieces of shit like this are out there and they're always going to be out there. Guys like this flock to google searches for "Abe Foxman" like flies to shit. Foxman's position on immigration enforcement is irrelevant. He hates Foxman because Foxman is a Jew. It's not his views he hates.

I didn't delete it outright only because I like for people to know that there are guys like this out there and posting his link doesn't help his Google rankings anyway (all links left in comments get a re="nofollow" added to them, so Google and other search engines ignore them).

"See, this is where you get, finally, when you don't stand up to racists." Sophia

Oh good grief. An absolute dickhead comes by, drops a comment, and Sophia, carte blanche, dismisses any and all obstacles in her path - or rather, in the path of better comprehensions, cogency, coherence, etc.

Boorish in the extreme, and a confirmation of the misology and logophobia alluded to above.

Never mind the well considered by Fredo Arias-King (comment #23), never mind the similarly thoughtful piece by Heather McDonald (#25), never mind any other responsibly considered views - nope, take no responsibility along better reasoned grounds - and dismiss it whole-cloth instead.

Was there a national socialist commenting?

I must have missed that.

Anyway, how come no comment on the Jews' plan, as explicated in the Talmud, and clarified over the years by the likes of Adolphe Cremieux and Moses Hess and and David Gruen/Ben-Gurion and numerous others, to establish a world government and enslave the goyim?

Like this:

"Arizona, Mass-Immigration, and th Jewish War Against Humanity"

http://brianakira.wordpress.com/2010/05/03/arizona-mass-immigration-and-the-jewish-war-against-humanity/

I don't know who you are referring to with comments like "piece of shit" and "dickhead", and so on, but it's very rude.

It sounds like the kind of filth the Jews pollute culture with through their control of the media.

See? What I tell ya?

"Christ Killer Killer", what's the matter, you don't like Italians?

Well Italians know how put you to bed with the fishes. Night night!

P.S. Sadly for filth like you, the Israelis are not the unarmed Jews of WW2 nazi europe.

As Professor Marvel said, "Oh, you liquidated him, eh".