What goes around:

Galloway claims "tooth fairy took money"
http://bit.ly/cGqXy1

Of course he believes in democracy. He believes in a democracy for everyone whether it's muslim's, palestinians or iraqi's.

The article is in no way ironic. Islam4UK are a fundamentalist group who do not believe everyone is equal, George Galloway has publicly condoned them on many occasions.

You would only think that this article is ironic if you think all muslims are the same which perhaps you do given your obvious ignorance.

Galloway supports and has supported Hamas, Hizballah, the Assads, Saddam Hussein and various other third world strongmen. He said the saddest day in his life was the day the Soviet Union fell. He is not a democrat, he is a demopath. He only uses the trappings of democracy in order to destroy it.

The shame it causes him should force him to shahid himself with a speedo full of Semtex. In'shallah.

That gallowsway SCUMBAG said...

"My party, Respect, is the antidote to these despicable extremists."

If gallowsway wants to see "despicable extremists", he can find a glaring example in his bathroom mirror/

Hey, gallowsway, nice leotard!
http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=HO9iN_fZZaA&feature=related

Whatever he supports he is a voice for the working class and a passionate speaker against wrongful occupation whether it's Palestine, Iraq or Afghanistan.

Hamas are an elected party who do indeed use violence but so would i in their circumstances. The main problem with 'wars' such as the Palestine Conflict, Iraq and even Northern Island is the second the opressed retaliate they are labelled terrorists. You have to ask would you not do the same? If a foreign army invaded your country blew up your towns and killed your family would you not react? Can you not put yourself in other peoples shoes and look at both sides of the story?

And what of Saddam Hussein? What do you actually have a problem with? Are you really that bothered about how he treated his own people when the us and it's allies have killed over a million civilians since he was ousted?

And the fall of the Soviet Union was a bad day as was the fall of the Berlin Wall. What you have to understand is that both of these events are for greed not to help the people. They open up the free markets so corporates can exploit and privatise to their hearts content.

The media will feed the couch potatoes and passive minds to think that a great thing is happening when it's really destroying another way of living , an opposition to globalisation. It's a good thing to have different types of government. We do not all want to live in a shallow world of purchase power where the gap between rich and poor grows every day.

This may seem to be on a bit a tangent but Galloway has very similar views to the above.

I obviously come from the opposite end of the political spectrum to you Solomon though I still respect your views

The other posts on this thread do tend to highlight the ill-educated ignorance and name calling which seems to be typical of the anti-Galloway brigade.

Calling George Galloway a SCUMBAG or that he should 'wear a speedo full of Semtex' really says more about the posters than George Galloway.

Brian,

The main problem with 'wars' such as the Palestine Conflict, Iraq and even Northern Island is the second the opressed retaliate they are labelled terrorists.

Go way back in the conflict and start with the facts from the 1920s and find out who was doing the oppressing. How the British looked on in the massacre of the Jews of Hebron where they had been living centuries.
Go on and see how the Big Power Britain helped the "oppressed"'s 5 Arab armies attempt to annihilate the State as the RAF flew for Egypt and the British Army supplied officers and arms to Jordan.

As for Galloway go and read up on how he used charity funds for his Arab wife.

Hi Cynic,

Incidently, I am no supporter of the British Government past or present. That's exactly what i am saying the western governments only intervene when there is money to be had otherwise they will just watch massacres happen.

From day one Britain's wealth has come from taking over other countries, taking what they have and making slaves out of the natives.

I know there are atrocities on both sides and they all should stop. What i was saying is that one side is labelled an army and the other terrorists when that is clearly not the way.

For example, the British army entered Northern Island and murdered thousands of men, women and children and called that part of it's country it's own. The IRA formed to oppose this yet they are the bad guys and the Queens army are labelled hero's once more.

Your view that the "5 Arab armies attempt to annihilate the State" is a little blinkered too. As the Palestine Arabs did not agree to the UN Palestine Partition Plan (which is their right) the Jewish went ahead and created a state anyway which was of course illegal. The Arabs of course opposed this and war followed. They are the facts, but of course Jews will feel that the land is their God given right and they will have it at any cost.

And if you did feel oppressed all those years ago you have certainly made up for it.

I think you may be a little confused over George's Arab wife claim, if you could elaborate on that it would be useful.

Also, there seems to be a hint of racism there when you say 'Arab' wife why not just say wife?

Perhaps that's why you and other posts are anti-Galloway, because he does not hate muslims and has an Arab wife.

No matter what facts and reasons you come up with it always seems to boil down to people quite simply thinking the a better than others.

You see, other than Solomons post.

One person claims 'What goes around'

The other that he should wear a speedo full of Semtex

The other calls him a scumbag

and the other had racist undertones in referring to his 'Arab wife'

Wonder why there's no peace?

Hero is a bit strong Eddie though i do agree with most of his policies.

If Saddam Hussein is a war criminal for murdering 5,000 Kurds.

Would you agree that both George Bush and Tony Blair are war criminals for killing over a million innocent civilians?

Saddam was not an 'islamofascist' as you put it. He actually created a Western-style system, making Iraq the only country in the Persian Gulf region not ruled according to traditional Islamic law (Sharia).

I'll leave George to defend his meetings:

"I have met Saddam Hussein exactly the same number of times as Donald Rumsfeld met him. The difference is that Donald Rumsfeld met him to sell him guns and to give him maps the better to target those guns. I met him to try and bring about an end to sanctions, suffering and war, and on the second of the two occasions, I met him to try and persuade him to let Dr Hans Blix and the United Nations weapons inspectors back into the country - a rather better use of two meetings with Saddam Hussein than your own Secretary of State for Defense made of his."

Eddie, did you hate Hussein when Iraq was at war with Iran, or did you cheer him on then for taking on the Iranians? My guess is that he was your boy during the 1980's.

Brian, any recordings of Rumsfeld showering praise onto the genocidal Butcher of Badhdad as we have of Galloway?

Who crushed Sadaam, and who mourned Sadaams defeat - Rumsfeld or Galloway?

P.S. http://www.boycottscotland.com

It's about "uk" appeasement of islamofacism and the craven lust for libyan oil contracts.

LIEla, are you referring to the 8 year Iraq/Iran War?

How many Muslims killed how many Muslims?

We know that Muslims hate Infidels,

but why do Muslims hate fellow Muslims???

How did the Islamofacist Regime of Iran clear minefields? Were any Muslim children used to clear minefields?

Did Saddam Hussein invade a fellow Muslim country?

Since when was the creation of Israel "illegal?"

The UN plan specifically called for the creation of a Jewish majority state and an Arab majority state.

If any state in the world is "legal" it is Israel.

The US on the other hand, Mexico, Canada, Australia, Russia with its vast lands conquered by imperial force, China ditto; KSA which conquered the Hashemites in the Hijaz, Lebanon, Syria, Iraq all created by British and French imperial fiat - not to mention Jordan - also created by Britain - and which not so incidentally annexed the West Bank and the Old City of Jerusalem, expelling the Jews and NOT creating that UN-mandated Arab state - hell - this is legal?

Jeez Brian.

Also on Galloway - sheese already. He's a demagogue and a carpetbagger who's been exploiting racial and religious issues for his own gain.

By the way - you're making a pretty huge assumption when you accuse Eddie of having supported Saddam at any time.

I don't know if he did or if he didn't but either way you shouldn't jump to conclusions like that, lacking any proof whatsoever.

What isn't in doubt is that GALLOWAY supported Saddam and that includes by default his attack on Iran and also the mass murder of the Kurdish people, the suppression of the Shiite majority in Iraq, the support of terrorism in Israel and the SCUD attacks against Israeli civilians as well as the invasion of Kuwait.

Gee what's not to love. Now he's a supporter of Hamas, about which maybe you need to do some reading.

Honestly how can you defend this schmuck?

:(

PS you are dead wrong about the Arab intentions toward Israel.

Go read.

Study the statements of Arab leadership in the 1940's, the 1950's, the 1960's, the 1970's - the PLO and Hamas manifestos - and now - the so-called "moderate" "peace plan" would force the demographic destruction of Israel by "returning" millions of "refugees" to Israel (not outside the Green Line Which In Any Case Isn't a Border Israel) and also the ethnic cleansing of Jews from Judea and the Old City of Jerusalem, which was majority Jewish in 1948.

Sophia, this time you get well deserved praise.

Sophia, AKBAR!!!

Perhaps you should look at yourself before you start crying 'racism', Brian. You say that the 'problem' in the Middle East is caused by Jews 'thinking they are better than anyone else' (at least that's what I think you're trying to say, given all the typos, misspellings, and omitted words). That's a classic antisemitic canard used to "justify" the slaughter of literally millions.

Please take your racism and 1970s-style "working class" b.s. back to the Socialist Workers Party, where both will be duly appreciated.

Happy and Proud,

I did not say that the problem is caused by jews.

I said:

"No matter what facts and reasons you come up with it always seems to boil down to people quite simply thinking the a better than others."

No mention of Jews, I see the above statement as the reason of a lot of conflicts. Whether it's Iraq, South Africa or Ireland.

I honestly have no problem with jews at all. I respect them and their religion as i do with everyone. It does seem that you think everyone hates the jews when they don't, most of it is in your head. You read things the way you want to.

I am against all forms of racial hatred no matter how minor. I have no alliance to Arabs, muslims or jews and have no reason to have anything against them.

I apologise in advance for any typos!

Sophia,

I believe the Jewish occupation is illegal, I know i am not going to persuade here on that point so it seems pretty futile to come back and forth with facts and stats as we'll go on forever.

Back to the topic post on Mr Galloway.

He does not exploit racial and religious issues for his own gain. He could gain a lot more he had other more mainstream views. He was sacked from the labour party because of his stance on the Iraq war, hardly a 'gain'. He simply fights for the working class and people in need of help.

Galloway on Saddam "I met him to try and bring about an end to sanctions, suffering and war, and on the second of the two occasions, I met him to try and persuade him to let Dr Hans Blix and the United Nations weapons inspectors back into the country".

The conclusion you make regarding that by default he supports attacks on Iran and Kurds is ridiculous. He's a big supporter of Iran and even works for Iran's state controlled Press TV. Believe or not there is no hidden agenda with him, he's an honest politician who speaks a refreshing truth which is partly why he stands out so much.

Beddowes:

You are an idiot if you think George Bush bears responsibility for the sectarian violence in Iraq and not the fanatic perps -- Baathist, Wahabbi or Shia extremist and their financial backers (rich Saudi and gulf state sympathizers or the Islamic Republic of Iran) and that Saddam Hussein deserves any credit for keeping the peace by brutally persecuting and massacring citizens who were not Sunni Arab supporters of the Baathist regime.

George Galloway serves George Galloway's interests only and puts up a front of giving a sh!t about anyone but himself. That's why he happily hosts a show on Press TV, the propaganda organ of a regime that brutally oppresses the citizens of Iran.

George Bush and Tony Blair are responsible for the deaths of anywhere between 100,00 and 1,000,000 civilian deaths. They invaded the country and their forces have killed that many innocent people.

You are making things up here Lynne. I did not say Saddam Hussein deserves any credit for keeping the peace. He was an evil tyrant who killed thousands of his own people. I am no supporter of his. I was simply responding the Eddie saying that Saddam did not suit his word of the moment ' 'islamofascist'.

George Galloway has recently travelled to the Gaza Strip to give fundraised aid to the people there. How is that only giving a sh!t (as you so elegantly put it) about himself? He is an active member of the unite union and works, protests and pickets continually to help other people have the rights they deserve. He hosts Press Tv and recently TalkSport so there is a platform for real open debate on all of the important issues of today.

He is the exact opposite of what you claim Lynne.

Interesting. Israel itself is an "illegal occupation" in your enlightened opinion.

Yet, Israel was legally created by the UN, with the precedence created by the League of Nations and the same treaties that turned over huge swathes of the former Ottoman Empire to the Arabs.

Gee - I wonder if the Turks think THAT was legal? But I digress.

So OK Brian. Let's agree to something shall we? If Israel is "illegal" than could you PLEASE ask your fellow anti-Israel persons to stop bullying Israel with "international law" since this is meaningless to you anyway insofar as Israel's very existence is concerned.

Just admit that you want to throw all those Jews, whom you respect so much, into the sea by main force and forget the legalities which you don't respect in the first place. Because otherwise I don't see where you are going with this argument.

Meanwhile, I agree with Lynne about Iraq.

Dubya, much as I opposed the Iraq war, is NOT responsible for the mayhem that ensued. That's down to the terrorists, period.

I do think that said mayhem was a foreseeable consequence of the war though and it's a primary reason I was opposed to the war much as I despised Saddam and his brutal regime. In fact it was a situation in which there were no good alternatives.

But nobody forced the nihilists into blowing up tens of thousands of innocent people and virtually destroying the country!

Did they? That was entirely voluntary. And it stinks. And it's vital to start seeing it that way - that the terrorists have agency and are not an extension of Bush and Blair.

Indeed that's racism - you're saying that the suicide bombers and their ideological masters have no agency and no conscience.

I beg to differ.

Here. Read Tariq Alhomayed:

http://aawsat.com/english/news.asp?section=2&id=20542

And, I don't see how you can argue that Galloway's support of Saddam didn't include his evil deeds. How can he not have realized what Saddam was up to? Similarly the tears over the demise of the Soviet Union.

I don't care how far left you are and I'm pretty far left - that was a totalitarian empire responsible for crushing dissent and murdering countless people.

So it's one thing to support leftist ideals and something altogether different to support a totalitarian, antidemocratic empire.

Right?

Same goes for the aid to Hamas. Handing over bags of cash to Hamas, which has actually stolen food and other resources from the people of Gaza, and thrown same off the roofs for noncompliance with Hamas dictats, equals support for Hamas and similarly reinforces an anti-woman, anti-artist, anti-minority and anti-freedom political party with a racist agenda.

If Galloway were seriously interested in helping the people of Gaza he'd be working with moderate powers including those awful illegal Jews to try and forge a peace agreement, not going on these high-profile propaganda stunts that involved serious antisemitic ranting according to people who were there.

Also even the PFLP split at one point because Hamas was so threatening:

http://hurryupharry.org/2010/04/07/holidays-from-hell/

Here's more about your hero, friend to the Jews, the Kurds, and rational people everywhere including Palestinian victims of radical, violent leadership and endless, senseless armed conflict with Israel:

http://hurryupharry.org/2010/04/08/%E2%80%9Cracist-and-inflammatory%E2%80%9D/

I really think you should reconsider here.

What was Saddam up to exactly?

The reason we went to war with Iraq was due to Saddams weapons of mass destruction of which there were none, not one. Yet we still went to attacked Iraq. No matter how evil Saddam is, we had no reason to go to war. The reason certainly was not to improve the lives of Iraqi's. The west had no business there what so ever.

The violence that ensued after the initial invasion is completely Bush's and Blair's fault. They have destabilised an entire country. They have turned many passive iraqi's into anti-west fighters and employed many iraq's to work for them causing more friction. Between 100,000 - 1,200,000 civilians have been murdered in this occupation. This creates extremely strong feelings many of which boil over into 'terrorism'. The situation that Iraq is in now, which has been caused the the US and it's allies is a perfect breeding ground for terrorism and violence. There's so much to fight for and fight against. This does not help much either! http://www.collateralmurder.com/

I am saying no such thing about suicide bombers? They are making themselves the only way they know how. Their land and culture is being destroyed and their families murdered. They have nothing left and pay the ultimate sacrifice to air their detest and frustration. I am in no way racist Sophie so put that card back in your pocket.

If the US or UK does not agree with how Iraq is being run or indeed how the Soviets are running their empire is no business of theirs. They police the world as if they are the shining light of morality.

I never claim that the Soviets or indeed Hamas are perfect at all. But I think people need to understand that the US or Israel or no better. Time again the US look to be 'helping' Iraq and Afghanistan whereas Hamas are terrorists. The US are responsible for murdering countless people too, so are Hamas. It's the way people only look at the one side.

I'm sure many cultures despise the west's self obsessed, material, corporate ways but you don't get the head of of a country a few thousand miles away telling us that we are living the wrong way and that we should change the way we run our country.

They are not high propaganda stunts Sophia. They are genuine attempts to help people in need. Here's the kind of people that delivered the aid http://www.georgegalloway.com/

Helping people in need? By supporting the people who caused the violence?

Are you forgetting how Gaza came to be attacked in the first place?

Meanwhile, here's BBC on Iraq:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/3738368.stm

At the time of the war, I felt that Saddam was well contained though and therefore I feared the chaos which in fact ensued. Therefore, and for other good reasons, I opposed the war Bush and Blair launched against Iraq, not that anybody listens to me.

This doesn't get the terrorists off the hook though Brian.

How can you make that claim in all honesty? You have to leap from point a to point z and assume that without a dictatorship of some kind, outright evil will break out en masse - ie without tyrannical force people are just flat bad.

OR you can draw the logical conclusion that terrorists with various agendas were taking advantage of the power vacuum left by the fall of the Ba'ath regime.

It is true that Bush and Blair were guilty of attacking Iraq and toppling the regime.

They were not therefore guilty of causing the jihadi and other insane civil violence that has broken out since, most recently during and after the election.

There's something else going on here isn't there? A power vacuum does not in and of itself dictate serial mass murder.

Oh yes - support of Iran's Press TV - yet more proof that Galloway is totally beyond the Pale.

You do understand what that regime is all about don't you?

Good heavens Brian. How can you defend this shit? Or align yourself with these regimes and claim the US and Israel are no better?

Are you serious?

Also I don't buy that suicide bomb attacks on innocent people are an appropriate way of acting out frustration. Give me a break.

"I don't buy that suicide bomb attacks on innocent people are an appropriate way of acting out frustration."

Do you believe that collective punishment on all of the people in Gaza is an appropriate way of acting? Because frankly, the folks who are trying to raise awareness about this are doing a better job of persuading the general public (of which I am a member) who have no dog in this fight (neither pro-Israel nor pro-Hamas) that Israel's behavior has been pretty outrageous. Yeah, I know that Hamas has done some very, very nasty things and yes I've seen pictures and read about the dead. I've also seen some pretty horrible pictures of what kids burned with white phosphorus look like - some of the hospitals have had a difficulty time dealing with those wounds you know, as well as other horrors. This looks to me like an endless civil war and if Dr. Ariella Oppenheim's DNA research is accurate, this is a war between very closely related peoples - genetically that is. Obama hasn't gone far enough in my opinion: I think we should close the purse strings for Israel. If they don't want us to tell them what to do, then they don't need our money and we sure as hell don't need them.

I think the Gaza war was extremely upsetting. Had the rocket attacks not gone on for so many years it never would have happened.

The casualties were dreadful. There's no doubt about that.

But, can you honestly argue that a country should repeatedly put its own citizens at risk in the attempt to avoid harming enemies who have sworn to eradicate the population of that state, and which has also attacked Palestinians who disagree with that philosophy?

Regardless many Israeli soldiers have died in attempts to reduce Palestinian casualties. Great efforts have been made to reduce the force of explosive charges so they won't spread beyond the intended target and to be extremely accurate, and people are warned to get out of the way of impending military actions.

Unprecedented efforts to warn civilians including phone calls are made by the Israelis so as to try and reduce harm to civilians. I don't see any phone calls made to warn Israeli or for that matter other targets of terrorist attacks do you?

Does anybody call the pet market or the hotel or the mosque and warn Iraqis or Balinese or Egyptians to hit the deck?

No - because the point is to harm civilians, period. You cannot honestly argue against counter terrorism until you also argue against violent "resistance."

And, when people are deliberately placed or remain in harm's way which is the case in Gaza then what exactly is the IDF or any other army supposed to do?

Beyond that, the Gaza war reflects the nature of urban warfare and also with wars between organized armies and militia groups.

There's a parallel with the Mogadishu incident portrayed in the film "Black Hawk Down."

18 Americans were killed and as many as 2,000 Somalis died in the attempt to rescue the injured helicopter crews.

This was not intentional. There was no desire to "collectively punish" the Somalis, in fact the US and the UN, etc, had tried to rescue them from starvation resulting from civil war.

Then we got ensnared between various political groups and militias and the whole thing resulted in a disaster, Somalia remains a failed state and the catastrophe had other consequences, for example the non-intervention in Rwanda and other horrendous African wars.

Before you condemn the Israelis you should study the Mogadishu incident.

And unless you are prepared to make the claim that armies shouldn't try to protect and/or rescue their own soldiers and civilian populations I think it would be better to argue against violence, period.

Also re Gaza: it's really unfair to argue that attempts to protect civilian populations from thousands of terrorist attacks = "collective punishment" especially since the attacks themselves are de facto collective punishment.

Aren't they? What isn't "collective punishment" about rocket attacks on civilian populations?

That said, I think the people of Gaza are in a bad situation. Obviously not all are militia members, not all are political or religious extremists and it's important to try and find solutions.

I don't think, had I been in power, I would have instituted cutbacks in trade and other forms of communication even in the face of Hamas provocation.

But, it's hard to know exactly what to do here. More relaxed protocols at the borders resulted in terrorist attacks and the destruction of the Erez industrial zone and also of course there have been murders and kidnappings and attempted kidnappings that have resulted in dead Israelis. Supply trucks have been attacked. A Palestinian being treated at an Israeli hospital tried to blow up the hospital.

So, what do you suggest, besides punishing the Israelis for trying to survive?

Sophia, you're obviously an intelligent and compassionate person, so I don't understand how you can take seriously the attempts to warn Palestinian civillians before attacks commence - where do you expect them to go? Do you understand how densely populated the Gaza strip is? Do you understand how much of it has been destroyed and devastated? Do you just expect people to stand in the streets, many of which are completely impassable? It's like hog tying someone and telling them to run before you start shooting at them. As for a solution, that's a really tough one because not only do the Palestinians have to accept the proposition of leaving peacefully with their neighbors, the government of Israel needs to be willing to relinquish control of all of the natural resources of the West Bank and Gaza (access to water rights, gas and territorial waters off the Gaza strip).

What would you do, Sophia, if you were living in Gaza? Could you survive not the post traumatic stress, but the concurrent traumatic stress of your daily life? If you were born into hell on earth would you accept your life and hope that peace would one day be realized or would you strike out against the people you believed had imprisoned you - rightly or wrongly, how would you live your life in Gaza? If you cradled your dead child would you seek an eye for an eye? I know these are terribly hard questions but I think it is important not only to understand the history, but the present.

I understand what you're saying, Leila.

For an ordinary person, not a member of an elite clan or political party, the sense of helplessness must be extreme. Of course if a loved one is injured and killed that must make things nearly unbearable.

And, absent an open and safe political system it's nearly impossible for little people to create the kind of changes that would lead to a less dangerous situation, ie vote for or even start a more peaceful political party.

It's become illegal even to sell music I think in Gaza - music shops have been attacked, increasingly women are oppressed, and valuable infrastructure left behind by the Israelis has been destroyed. The greenhouses alone employed thousands of people and would have been profitable for the citizens of Gaza.

However, seeking an eye for an eye is just going to create more pain and more death and that's the essence of why the refusal of the elites to seek peace is so frustrating. It puts everybody in the region in a no-win situation as the potential for a widespread war increases and the possibility for future solutions and a better life descreases.

Syria apparently has shipped SCUD's to Hezbollah and Obama has delayed the appointment of Ford as ambassador to Damascus.

So right now I am feeling real despair because I don't see how, even as we've sought engagement with Iran, tried to start a dialogue with Syria and attempted to reach some kind of accomodation with KSA etc in order to begin lowering the rhetoric of rage and revenge, and UN resolutions have called for disarmament of militias in Lebanon yet have failed abysmally even in preventing arms shipments, the probability of a worse war has increased.

At root, one has to blame ideological extremism for this. We're all victims and potential victims once extremist ideologies become state policy.

When groups like Hamas and Hezbollah are sworn to destroy other human beings and then become so powerful they're part of regional governments there's little that can be done except pray that the consequences won't be too terrible.

I have all kinds of ideas, I'm sure others do too, as to how Gaza could become an excellent place to live. In an atmosphere of nonviolence the borders would be open, Egypt and Israel would both probably donate land and the well-educated and literate people of Gaza could create a good economy and realize their potential.

But as long as there are leaders there, in Lebanon and of course in Iran and other extremist groups who are determined to harm others then people on all sides of the situation will be holding bleeding children in their arms.

I don't know what to do, short of praying for a miracle.

But in the short term I would beg all sides to consider the horrible consequences of starting another war. And, if I had any power I'd be trying to attack the roots of incitement - fear, anger, misinformation.

But also, that's why I don't favor "proximity talks." I would drag people to the negotiating table if necessary, get people face to face, ease immediate economic problems, get people to work fixing infrastructure and do everything possible to stop the incitement in the mass media.

This is a big problem in the Middle East especially with groups like Hezbollah having their own TV networks. That plus SCUD's is a perfect recipe for disaster.

Correction, I think Ford's name will be submitted to the full Senate now.

Regardless the SCUD story stands.

How on earth are Gazan's expected to build up their own society? How can they make any kind of money or build their economy in any way whilst there is an israeli blockade stopping anything coming in or out.

Tell me, how can they build their society? When your main concern is food, medicine and clothing you're really not in a position to create a fair political system or put together a business plan. When you oppress people for as long as they have been guess what....anger is created, anger towards the oppressors. This may take the form of destroying buildings or attacking Israel just like anyone in that situation would.

The Viva Palestina Convey for instance (headed by the wonderful George Galloway!) which was delivering food and medicine was turned away twice?

The blockade is a cruel, pitiful action and has left 80% of the population completely reliant on aid.

Only last month UN Chief Ban Ki-moon said described the Gazan's "unacceptable suffering," during a Middle East visit to reinvigorate the peace process.

He also said it was "distressing" for him to see damage to housing remaining, with no reconstruction possible under the blockade.

Amnesty International state:

"Israel’s blockade of the Gaza Strip leaves more than 1.4 million Palestinians cut off from necessary and life-saving supplies, exacerbating a situation of extreme and desperate poverty. The blockade restricts the entry of basic goods, such as food and fuel, on which the population depends on for survival."

You paint a false picture Nappy-headed Ho'. They have no where enough running water, very poor sanitation and a lack of materials to construct anything. It's certainly a place where you and I would not live.

Brian, you're wasting your time. The folks here are not interested in seeing an end to the Palestinian suffering - they want to see an end to these people taking up space they believe belongs to Israel. Their solution is, was and always will be that the Palestinians (and hey, some folks don't believe they even exist as an ethnic group even with DNA evidence to the contrary but who needs science when you're righteous) are just a bunch of Arabs who should just get out and go live in Egypt, Jordan, Syria or who cares where just so long as it isn't Israel. That's the bottom line: these folks don't give a flying fig about whether they all disappeared from the face of the Earth tomorrow - in fact they'd probably applaud that. And I don't think this is a new attitude: they don't care now, they didn't care 100 years ago, and they won't care tomorrow. There's this absolutely deranged notion that "God" gave this land to them and it's theirs. History, facts, reality, science - don't matter. God said so. So did the Easter Bunny and Santa Clause too, and the Tooth Fairy promised it as well.

Forgot to mention, Nappy's comment really says it all - he thinks they're "savages" - that pretty much sums up everything you need to know about these people here.

Here's something interesting from the N.Y. Times. Also, the blog has some interesting comments too - worth checking out. Can't wait to read the posts from this joint's usual suspects.

http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/04/14/vandals-attack-west-bank-mosque/

Leila, with all due respect that's an unfair stereotype.

I think that the "usual suspects" here would love to see an end to Palestinian suffering but they, unlike you guys apparently, also see Israeli suffering.

This isn't accidental, it's deliberate and it's part of a continuum of extreme violence that has literally decimated the world's already tiny Jewish population. Today, there are some 2 million less Jews on the planet than there were in 1930.

On the other hand the "Palestinian" population has flourished; the population of Gaza will double in 15 years.

There's a huge difference therefore between "Palestinian suffering" and the threat of another genocide which is what confronts Jews, along with the constantly threatened destruction of Israel, which is constantly threatened with annihilation and has been serially attacked since the day of its independence.

Indeed, Brian, who cares so much about the Palestinian Arabs, doesn't seem to give a rat's ass about the Israelis because according to him Jews in their homeland constitute an "illegal settlement."

This is nearly unbelievable considering the weight of history as well as the fact that there are 22 Arab League states already, occupying an enormous area of the world - some 1/9 of the planet's landmass is Arab League territory. Israel is .01% of that.

So talk about a lack of compassion... not to mention a sense of proportion.

Worse, there seems to be no awareness whatsoever that "Palestinian suffering" has anything to do with Palestinian violence.

And until that particular lightbulb goes on there is little hope for a lasting and secure peace.

Further, neither you nor Brian seem willing to admit that people like Galloway are supporting some of the most vicious incitement on the planet, which is driving conflict not solving it.

This is a double shame because of the fact that incitement is coming from outside the region as well as from within it and Galloway along with some other extremely nasty Brits is guilty of inciting real hate rather than helping create an atmosphere where reconciliation can flourish.

You don't have to play along with this shit.

You can support the cause of peace, which would relieve EVERYBODY'S suffering without buying into bigoted extremism.

By the way, attacks on Palestinians are wrong and the perpetrators should be arrested.

So - are you surprised by that response Leila? What did you expect me to say - that we advocate a victory parade?

The actions of the people in the article you linked are barbarous. Full stop.

Oh Sophia, you're the only voice of reason I've seen posting here and even you fell into my trap: what I wrote was so outrageous that it deserved nothing less than a full out complete denial. Instead you gave the usual analysis of the causes of violence and suffering and offered an apology of sorts i.e. Israel is only taking up .01 percent of the land mass and 1/9 belongs to the Arabs. You were talking about causes while I was talking about goals. The silence from other folks here speaks volumes (except for Eddie of course who we love because he at least puts it out there). I believe that you, Sophia, genuinely want to see an end which permits the people of Israel, the West Bank and Gaza to live good peaceful lives, but I think at this site you're pretty singular in your views. I think you're keeping company with folks who believe that the State of Israel, including all of the West Bank and Gaza, should be Arab free.

I know what you mean Leila, it does seem at times pretty futile trying to get though.

"I think that the "usual suspects" here would love to see an end to Palestinian suffering but they, unlike you guys apparently, also see Israeli suffering."

I'm not sure Eddie would agree with you there Sophia. And in reference to being one sided I have previously said:

"Can you not put yourself in other peoples shoes and look at both sides " and:

"I know there are atrocities on both sides and they all should stop."

You seem to read what you want to. I could not care less whether you're a jew or muslim. I just feel that this topic and many of the posts are blinkered massively towards Israel with and underlining belligerence towards arabs.

And i would not worry too much about Israel's future existence by the way, especially whilst it's being tucked into bed each night by the USA.

And as for Palestine's fighting Palestine's. Isn't that a familiar story: Invade Iraq, destabalise the country, create turmoil and animosity then sit back and tut at the people there fighting. Invade Northern Island, split the country in two then watch as all sides take it out on each other. Not to mention countless African and South American countries who have ended up in the same state. The common denominator? yes, you guessed it's Western Governments (which pretty much includes Israel) attacking other countries by force or economic sanctions for the gain of land and/or money. That is the 'lightbulb'.

George Galloway has headed numerous convoys that could not succeed without him. These convoys have delivered medicine, food, clothes, ambulances and 35,000 dollars of his own money to people who even you Sophia admit are suffering. Is this the 'vicious incitement' you mention?

He publicly protested against the invasion of the Iraq war which ultimately cost him his job as a labour MP. Is this what makes him an 'extremely nasty Brit'.

He has also spent the majority of his life supporting unions in a bid to improve working conditions for the working classes.

That Sophie it 'shit' I am more than happy to play along with.

Brian, with respect, there has been internecine Arab violence since long before Western governments got involved - probably you should read some history.

This makes eminent sense considering the scarcity of a particular key resource - water - but also there are long-standing patterns of clan and religious conflict and also over control of trade routes. Regarding religion alone, for example Sunni-Shiite violence dates back over 1,000 years.

The 1930's saw terrible clan violence in the Mandate and this continues in Gaza today; it isn't the fault of the Israelis or any Western government but rather severe differences in philosophy, religion and also clan and family conflicts.

Also you need to take into account rapid growth of population in a relatively small area combined with very fast change - ie the rapid onset of modernity, the opening of the region to the outside world including the West of course but also to the economic and social changes wrought by the industrial revolution.

Also overlooked are ethnographic stresses. There is no such thing as a monolithic "Palestinian" entity - indeed one cannot stereotype Palestinian Arabs any more than one can stereotype any other group of people. In fact (besides Jewish immigration) there was a great influx of people in the 19th and 20th centuries - many from all over the Ottoman Empire so there are Kurds, Turks, Circassians, Bosnians, descendants of Crusaders, indigenous people like the Druze who were already there and of course nomadic or semi-nomadic Bedouin and the fellahin whose numbers grew simply because of better medical treatment. People who'd been dying of childhood diseases started living to adulthood.

So stress caused by exposure to French and British colonialism and Jewish immigration is only part of the story.

I do think the Sykes-Picot agreement and other Western imperialist manipulations just about guaranteed conflict - for example the borders of Iraq almost guarantee conflict between Sunni, Shiite and Kurdish groups all jammed together into the same nation-state whose borders were drawn up by a British lady - Gertrude Bell - I don't know whether this was a result of stupidity or design.

This is also true of the long standing problems between Lebanon and Syria - not to mention aggravation between ethno-religious groups within those states especially in Lebanon. But attacks on minority groups didn't begin with Western intervention and indeed the oppression of the Arabs predates Western meddling by centuries.

For example I'm sure you are aware that the Turks are not indigenous to West Asia?

In any case you need to ask yourself honestly: did inter-tribal, ethnic and religious wars start with Western imperialism? And what about Arab imperialism, the Mongol invasions and the impact of Islamic expansionism?

Also as to Galloway - I was opposed to the Iraq war too.

But I do not don't apologize for Saddam or support violent, bigoted, racist, oppressive right wing groups like Hamas or associate with Western bigots either.

Hamas' brutal takeover of the Gaza strip along with the ceaseless incitement and violence against Israeli civilians and the oppression of other Palestinians is THE primary reason the people of Gaza are suffering today.

Am I wrong in surmising that you don't want to look at the aftermath of the Israeli withdrawal from Gaza because it puts responsibility for the lousy economy there squarely where it belongs - on the shoulders of the people who destroyed infrastructure and started to attack Israel almost immediately?

Gaza had an opportunity to build a state and instead went to war and destroyed the basis for a modern economy.

Now - you mention the sewage problem. Well the fact is the international community had already funded the project to fix the sewage situation but the pipes went back over the border packed with explosives and a payload of shrapnel and nails.

Instead of using construction materials to fix the sewage system the militants made rockets.

Instead of using the hi-tech greenhouses to employ thousands of Gazan workers and build an economy, the greenhouses were destroyed.

How is this anybody's fault but the people who made the rockets and destroyed the economic infrastructure?

As for Galloway - please read about the groups he's involved with, and also the misuse of ethnic and religious tensions in Bethnal Green - the parliamentary seat he carpetbagged. The existing MP, Oona King was by all accounts a good representative of the people but she was hounded for her religion and probably also her sex - she's half black, Jewish and female and "Respect" threw eggs at her and put Galloway into office.

Real help for the Palestinian people will come from moderates who don't incite violence and who don't align themselves with organizations which preach religious bigotry and sexism and the violent suppression of political dissent.

You need to stop looking at everything through Jewish tinted spectacles.

Oona King did not lose her seat because she was black, a woman or jewish. She lost because the majority of people wanted to vote for George Galloway and whom do not agree with your take on him.

Eddie...

"George Bush and Tony Blair are responsible for the deaths of anywhere between 100,00 and 1,000,000 civilian deaths."

You blame Bush and Blair that Muslims kill Muslims?"

I blame Bushs' and Blairs' forces that invaded and kills 100,000 accounted for civilian deaths. The figure is believed to be closer to 1,000,000 hence me quoted those two figures.

I have never claimed that muslims do not kill other muslims so you can list all the facts you like, i'm not sure what your point is?

Brian, ask your puppet master to give you a more specific claim as to the number of "civilian" deaths.

1,000,000 dead "civilians" tugs on the heart strings more than 1,000 (THOUSAND) dead.

Get some REAL numbers, not the ones you pull out of your ass.

And MOST importantly, how many of these dead "civilians" are REAL civilians...

and not Saddams Royal Guard DRESSED as civlians as HAMass, hezbullah, and taliban terrorists do.

Hey, if as you have been instructed to claim, if 1,000,000 civilians have died, there should be 1,000,000 GRAVES.

Are there 1,000,000 graves?

I wish that your george galloway gets beaten up, as robert fisk did, beaten by the islamofascist swine they support.

Isn't george galloway scottish?

http://www.boycottscotland.com

Eddie,

These figures have not been 'pulled out of my ass' as you so eloquently put it.

There are many credible resources that suggest these figures. There are believed, that's believed to be 1,000,000. Believe it or not the US do not actually admit to and broadcast every innocent civilian they kill, can't imagine why? Have you even watched this? http://www.collateralmurder.com

That have been 100,000 accounted for, again from many credible sources. Even if that does include people whose in your eyes probably deserve it still leaves many thousands of dead men, women and children, they are only Arabs though Eddie so I know that won't have any effect on you.

You're kind of missing the point though.

You do come across as quite one-sided and a tad belligerent. "You wish George Galloway gets beaten up" do you realise how you sound? Are we in a school playground here? I suppose if you cannot get your point across in any other than violence against who have different views to you is your answer?

You state "I wish that your george galloway gets beaten up, as robert fisk did, beaten by the islamofascist swine they support."

Can you not see how ridiculous that reads? If George Galloway and indeed Robert Frisk supported Islamofacists then they would not have beaten them up. It;s the fact that they do not support them why they do.

Yes, well done, he's Scottish...and?

Brian, Eddie missed his rabies shots - that's why he foams at the mouth like that. He can't help it - it's rotted his brains now into mush so what normally comes out his ass also comes out his mouth.

LIEla, it's again time for you to get checked for STDs.

Your career choice, your family business, of Sharmuta, mandates it.

LIEla, I pray you don't have the same STD that your late chairman yassir arafat had.

yassir died of "Bad Meat in the Can".

P.S. Does suha arafat, the late "chairmans" wife, live in Pal-e-SWINE with her people, her fellow Pal-e-SWINIANS, or elsewhere?

Brian, again, your sources, vary by a factor of 10.

100,000 times 10 is 1,000,000.

That's a pretty wide range. Can't your "sources" get closer to the actual number?

Where are 1,000,000 graves since 2003?

Brian, you don't see how foolish you sound parroting the BS you are fed.

Again, of the dead
- how many are REAL civilians, and not Saddams men
- how many were killed by Sadaams regime
- how many were killed in sunni/shiite intercine jihads

Brian, WHO beat up robert fisk, to within an inch of his life?

Was it a bunch of
A - JOOOZ
B - ZIONISTS
C - crazed ISLAMOFASCISTS

galloway is scottish.

Considering the claimed scottish "compassion" for the "dying" bomber of Pan Am 103, which in REALITY is the scottish PASSION for libyan oil contracts,

BOYCOTT scotland, the land of HAGGIS EATIN' SURRENDER MONKEYS!

The waving saltaire at the Welcome Home in libya was the icing on the cake.

http://www.boycottscotland.com

Brian, now I'm sure you are a bigot.

Your comment that I am seeing through "Jewish spectacles" is flat out outrageous but also, Oona King was indeed specifically targeted for her religion.

DO SOME READING.

After george galloway was beaten by some members of his constituency,

he was heard to say while shifting his shoulders and adjusting his tie...

I don't get no "Respect"

It's outrageous because it's true Sophia,

You and more obviously Eddie look at things from one side. The fact that you think Oona King was targeted because she was a Jew supports this.

The tens of thousands of people in that area did not vote for Galloway because Oona King was a Jew. It's an insult to the people to say so. This is exactly what i mean, you think that everyone has got a problem with jews when we have not. If anything, there is a much greater prejudice of muslims, especially since 911. I have heard many insults and derogatory words aimed at muslims in the media and even by friends and family. Not once have i heard a bad word about jews, never, no-one really cares to be honest.

Eddie, I'm not sure what you're struggling to grasp here. 100,000 civilians have died, fact, all accounted for. However, there is believed to be more, possibly up to 1,000,000. This figure is estimated and comes from speaking to Iraqi civilians, it also includes 'missing' civilians whose bodies have not been found.

I give up with you Eddie, again, I know that muslims have killed many too, i know muslims beat up Robert Fisk. I'm only parroting because you're asking the same questions! I know it's much easier for you to argue if I love all muslims and hate all jews but that is not the case. As I said before (give me strength) I have no religious preference at all and do not place muslims above jews.

The worrying thing with you Eddie is the way you comment like you do about an entire country because of the views you have about one man. And you call others extreme or fascists? Your quite simply a hypocrite, very confused and no doubt shout about and make statements like you do for attention.

I think your right about Eddie Leila, he's not quite right, it's a shame really!

Yes Brian, Eddie is round the bend. Look here:

[Link to "Leila"'s therapeutic personal-attack blog removed.]

Brian said...

"100,000 civilians have died, fact, all accounted for. However, there is believed to be more, possibly up to 1,000,000"

followed by...

"I know that muslims have killed many too"

So how many of the "100,000 to 1,000,000" were killed by Muslims?

How many NON-civilian Muslims, in other words Saddams troops were killed?