Tuesday, June 1, 2010
Here's another comprehensive collection of useful information regarding the Gaza Flotilla. Judging from the traffic, yesterday's posting seems to have helped a considerable number of people: Video: Gaza Flotilla Thugs Stab Israeli Soldiers, Use Immediate Extreme Violence (Important Updates)
[Update: Before we get to the links. Here's one young man, D Laugier, who wasn't afraid to venture down to the Boston Common yesterday, and do a lone-man counter-protest to the "spontaneous" protest there yesterday. We salute his bravery and his indefatigability:]
Now back to the links:
Let's try, once again, to put to bed some of the legal issues:
CAMERA: Israel's right to blockade Gaza and to interdict shipping
Under international law Israel is within its rights to establish a maritime blockade of the Gaza Strip, since Gaza is ruled by Hamas, a hostile terrorist entity that has launched missiles into Israel targeting and killing civilians, and has also infiltrated and attempted to infiltrate into Israel in order to carry out attacks.
While allowing inspected food and other essential materials into Gaza via trucks, Israel has announced that ships attempting to transport supposedly humanitarian supplies into Gaza would have to first dock in Israel for the supplies to be inspected, after which legitimate humanitarian supplies would be trucked into Gaza.
The organizers of the Gaza-bound ships have consistently refused to allow their cargo to be inspected, which seems to prove that their humanitarian aid is just a pretext, and their real aim is simply to break the blockade. Whatever their aim however, Israel has a right under international law to prevent such ships from reaching Gaza...
They go on to quote the relevant international law.
Julian Ku, writing at Opinio Juris answers the question: Did the Israeli Defense Forces Commandos Commit "Piracy"? Nope.
...let me start by advising IDF critics to drop the silly accusation that Israel committed "piracy," which various folks have made...whatever can be said about the legality of the raid, it was not, as a legal matter, piracy...So can we drop the stupid piracy meme?...
Bibi Netanyahu makes a short statement:
This soldier describes what it was like coming down on the deck of the ship, including the use of live fire against them:
Here is chilling audio of the soldiers, their reaction to the attack, and their distress calls while taking live fire:
Richard Landes has posted some even higher definition video of the maelstrom the soldiers came into: High(er) Definition footage of the battle on the Mavi Marmara
[Update: Excellent video of British security expert analyzing the boarding video. Shows the Paintball Guns used by Israeli commandos:]
Here are some links concerning the Turkish Islamist group, the IHH, that seems to have been primarily responsible for the trouble, and with whom the other organizers collaborated:
At The Weekly Standard, Jonathan Schanzer writes about The Terror Finance Flotilla
...The Turkish IHH (Islan Haklary Ve Hurriyetleri Vakfi in Turkish) was founded in 1992, and reportedly popped up on the CIA's radar in 1996 for its radical Islamist leanings. Like many other Islamist charities, the IHH has a record of providing relief to areas where disaster has struck in the Muslim world.
However, the organization is not a force for good. The Turkish nonprofit belongs to a Saudi-based umbrella organization known to finance terrorism called the Union of Good (Ittilaf al-Kheir in Arabic). Notably, the Union is chaired by Sheikh Yusuf Qaradawi, who is known best for his religious ruling that encourages suicide attacks against Israeli civilians. According to one report, Qardawi personally transferred millions of dollars to the Union in an effort to provide financial support to Hamas...
Just Journalism notes that the press hasn't shown much interest in the terror connections of the organizers: Press ignores controversial IHH profile
And here's that report from the Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center: A Danish research institute exposes the links the Turkish organization IHH had with Al-Qaeda and global jihad networks
Elder notes that even Turkey has taken action against the group:
Organizations such as IHH are quick to respond to natural disasters and other human catastrophes. Unfortunately, these groups often seek to use these situations to gain leverage with destitute Muslim refugees. In August 1999, when a devastating earthquake struck Turkey, IHH reached the affected zones, in some cases, even before the Turkish government. Friction quickly grew between authorities tasked with relief and independent Islamist "humanitarian" groups. Ultimately, Turkey was forced to ban the IHH from participating in earthquake aid efforts because it was counted among several "fundamentalist organizations" operating "secret bank accounts" that were refusing to allow local authorities to oversee the distribution of their aid resources
Evan Kohlmann, author of the original IHH report, brings things up to date: Shooting the Messenger: A Look at the Facts on the Turkish Aid Group IHH
...On December 5, 1997, Turkish police raided the IHH headquarters office in Istanbul and arrested its principal leaders. Following their preliminary inquiry, on April 27, 1998, Turkish investigators launched a formal legal case against the IHH. According to a report produced by French counterterrorism magistrates, the inquiry was spurred by the sale of an AK-47 assault rifle to an IHH leader by "a member of the illegal organization VASAT." Turkish police reported seizing a series of disturbing items from the IHH in Turkey, including an explosive device, two sticks of dynamite, bomb making instructions, and a "jihad flag." The French magistrates report noted that:
"It appears that the detained members of IHH were going to fight in Afghanistan, Bosnia, and Chechnya... The essential goal of this Association was to illegally arm its membership for overthrowing democratic, secular, and constitutional order present in Turkey and replacing it with an Islamic state founded on the Shariah. Under the cover of this organization known under the name of IHH, [IHH leaders] acted to recruit veteran soldiers in anticipation of the coming holy war. In particular, some men were sent into war zones in Muslim countries in order to acquire combat experience. On the spot, the formation of a military unit was assured. In addition, towards the purpose of obtaining political support from these countries, financial aid was transferred [from IHH], as well as caches of firearms, knives, and pre-fabricated explosives."...
NGO Monitor does their usual excellent work: NGO Involvement in the Gaza Boat Flotilla
Charities, NGOs, and other groups claiming human rights and humanitarian aid goals have been deeply involved in the demonization of Israel. The "Free Gaza Flotilla" highlights this façade of morality exploited for this political warfare...
YNet is reporting (h/t: IsraeliSoldier on Twitter): Navy Commander: The activists were given money to deal with fighters (sorry for Google translation)
During the special cabinet discussion revealed that Gen. Merom pockets of some of those killed in the incident were found thousands of dollars in cash. Evaluation: Some activists were mercenaries who were paid before boarding ships to confront Israeli soldiers
Also at YNet (another translation):
Now in English at YNet: Probe reveals flotilla lynchers have ties to Global Jihad
The ongoing interrogation of passengers who were aboard the Marmara - the Gaza aid flotilla's flagship - revealed that the majority of those who attacked the Israeli Naval Commandos boarding the ship have direct and indirect Global Jihad ties.
Israel's investigation has revealed some 100 people infiltrated the peace and humanitarian aid activists making their way to Gaza, with the explicit design to attack Israeli soldiers using cold arms...
Video at Legal Insurrection: Gaza Flotilla Organizer Puts Lie To "Humanitarian" Purpose
Adam Shapiro, one of the organizers of flotillas to break the sea blockade of Gaza in 2009 and again in 2010, was interviewed on PBS. In the interview, Shapiro made clear that the primary purpose of the flotilla was political.
Only upon prompting by Gwen Ifill did Shapiro even mention a supposed humanitarian purpose...
Not sure if I posted this one already, but Palestinian Media Watch notes: More documentation of flotilla planning violence against Israel
A day before the confrontation with Israel a university lecturer revealed on Hamas TV that the Gaza flotilla's commander had announced that the participants were planning to use "resistance," the Palestinian euphemism for violence, against "the Zionists." He added that the participants sought to die as Martyrs, even more than they wanted to reach Gaza...
Barry Rubin has a must-read: Sympathy for the Devil and the Gaza Sea Confrontation: How Can Helping a Repressive Fascist, Genocide-Intending Hamas Regime be Noble?
Shmuley Boteach has another good one which comes to this conclusion:
...I don't want to wake up to news, as I did this morning, that Israel has once again been forced into a terrible choice between protecting its citizens and soldiers and stopping their assailants. But Jewish life is also valuable. And we should not expect twenty-year-old soldiers to stand by passively as mobs try and stab them to death.
Leslie Gelb writes at The Daily Beast: Israel Was Right
Israel had every right under international law to stop and board ships bound for the Gaza war zone late Sunday. Only knee-jerk left-wingers and the usual legion of poseurs around the world would dispute this. And it is pretty clear that this "humanitarian" flotilla headed for Gaza aimed to provoke a confrontation with Israel. Various representatives of the Free Gaza Movement, one of the main organizers of this deadly extravaganza, have let it slip throughout Monday that their intention was every bit as much "to break" Israel's blockade of Gaza as to deliver the relief goods.
The Israeli commandos who stormed the ship, where fighting erupted, badly mishandled the situation. But theirs was a mistake in pursuit of a legal goal, not a war crime. And as for calls for international investigations, they represent the usual hypocritical nonsense that will go nowhere...
Daniel Gordis addresses a wobbly-kneed American friend: Facebook Meets the Flotilla
Jonathan Kay writes at Canada's National Post: Jenin on the high seas
If Israel truly had wanted to "massacre" the Hamas sympathizers and fellow travellers aboard a six-ship Gaza-bound flotilla, the operation would not have been complicated. The Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) would have used the trusty North Korean solution: Torpedo the ships and watch them sink to the bottom of the sea...
Andrew Bolt at the Daily Telegraph: Boatloads of bloody-minded pacifists
...ABC host Jon Faine, for instance, described these victims of Zionist aggression as "humanitarian activists with a few knives". Er, with knives? Humanitarians? And a strident report in The Age, Australia's most left-wing daily, conceded that video of the Israeli soldiers being lowered on to the ships from helicopters did shows some of the "hundreds of politicians and protesters" on board had offered "signs of resistance".
Here are some of those "signs of the resistance" that report failed to detail.
You see the Israelis, at first brandishing just paint-ball guns, being grabbed as they landed, dragged to the ground, and beaten brutally with pipes and clubs.
On another clip, apparently shot by protesters, a soldier is stabbed in the back, and then in the front. Another soldier is beaten and thrown over the side.
Photographs show two Israeli soldiers, one of them shot, being carried off with serious wounds. This isn't what you'd normally expect from "peace protesters" or "humanitarian activists", even those armed merely "with a few knives".
These clues suggest the media - and many foolish politicians - have fallen for a brilliant propaganda coup...
At Contentions, I like the way Noah Pollak thinks: The Problem with Playing Defense
...What would it look like if the Israeli government played offense? First and foremost, this would require some serious criticism of the Islamist government of Turkey, which masterfully created this crisis and is now denouncing Israel for it. Turkey's thuggish prime minister certainly understands the benefits of being on offense. He says that Israel committed a "massacre" and is guilty of "state terrorism," "piracy," has struck "a blow to world peace and against international law," threatens that "if Israel does not immediately free all the detainees and wounded, the rift in relations with it will widen," and thunders that "Israel will not be able to show itself in the world until it apologizes for what happened and undergoes self-criticism."
Quite a performance! Wouldn't it be remarkable if the Israelis had gotten ahead of the story by making their own accusations and demands? Here are a few ideas of the kind of concrete action the Israelis could take -- if they had the stones to really take a stand...
For you Palin haters out there: Palin Reacts to Flotilla Incident
The media, as usual, seems to be reporting only one side of the Israeli Flotilla incident. Don't trust the mainstream media to give you both sides of a story fairly... you must seek out fair reporting to ensure you have all the information.
As far too many in the media, and in various governments, rush to condemn Israel, we must put the recent events off Israel's coast into the right perspective. This "relief" convoy was not about humanitarian aid, as the liberal mainstream media keeps reporting. The whole operation was designed to provoke Israel, not to provide supplies to Palestinians held hostage by Hamas terrorists in Gaza. Anyone who sees the video of Israeli commandos being attacked as they land on that ship knows the people aboard were vicious thugs, not "peace activists." The media insults our intelligence with their outright mischaracterization of who these enemies are...
The Israel Project had an excellent conference call with Israeli spokesman Mark Regev: Mark Regev, Prime Minister of Israel's Spokesperson
Recent Events: Gaza Flotilla and Hopes for Peace
The Jewish Federations of North America has created a resource page, here: Gaza Flotilla Incident: Resource Page
At Hudson, Youssef M. Ibrahim writes Gaza Armada: The "Hate the Jews" Fest
Turkey is erupting as the hottest anti-Israeli belligerent state of the Middle East.
The US ally and NATO member that aspires to join the European Union now ranks as chief instigator, leader and organizer of the so-called Gaza aid flotilla of boats tackled overnight by Israeli commandos...
Update: Violence from flotilla supporters in Britain: Gaza aid ship protesters try to storm BBC Manchester
The IDF has already started transferring cargo from the ships into Gaza, as should have happened in the first place: 'Equipment not in shortage in Gaza'
..."We have been working non-stop for the last twenty-four hours examining the cargo holds of the three large cargo ships and I can say with great assurance, that none of the equipment on board is needed in Gaza. The equipment that we found is all equipment that we have regularly allowed into the strip over the past year," said Levi. "This proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that the whole premise of the voyage was for propaganda and provocation and not for humanitarian purposes."...
Update: THIS is long overdue: Israeli Civil Rights Center Warns: Gaza Boat Organizers Have Violated the Neutrality Act
Update: ONE BRAVE PROTESTER. Daniel in the Lions' Den (h/t: Barry Rubin, from Israel Truth Times):
Palin's summary of media and governmental responses is apt, but, if anything, understated. Fact is, it's but one more example of shamefulness from those quarters. The interviews I've seen and heard, almost without exception, are cringe producing in terms of that unashamed shamefulness.
I have never read such one-sided, blinkered rubbish.
Armed Israeli soldiers invaded a boat delivering aid to Gaza. No soldiers were killed and 10 civilians were slaughtered. You can show all the clips you want but this simply proves your blind support of anything Israel does.
You say Israel have the right to blockade Gaza as they are run by the 'terrorist' Hamas group. How on earth can you call them terrorists when Israel time and time again murders innocent civilians. It's pure hypocrisy.
The truth is often one-sided.
"No soldiers were killed and 10 civilians were slaughtered."
They were only "civilians" in the narrowest sense of that word. They were actually terrorists seeking martyrdom. Listen to the truly ugly bint in the clip below as reported by Al Jazeera:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3L7OV414Kk&feature=player_embedded
They were not "slaughtered" nor was their ship "invaded", and I expect the IDF to have a ten nil result against such a criminal rabble.
Brian, look at the boarding video and see what happened to each commando as he came down the rope. Please Brian, believe your lying eyes - even if it doesn't fit your "narrative" of the "other".
Brian is impervious to evidence. You can show him audio and video...present him with facts and logic. In the end he'll still scream murderer! He's full of hate and destruction.
That is priceless Solomon, me full of hate and destruction? really?
Hands up here who supports the blockade? the one that has caused untold suffering to the Gazan people? And who is calling the 10 dead 'criminal rabble' only days after they have been shot by the cowardly IDF (It's not exactly hard for the IDF to win 'ten nil' as you despicably put it).
The 'criminal rabble' on this ship were delivering aid to Gaza. 10,000 tonnes of supplies. It's the IDF that have committed a terrorist act here.
Of course i'll scream murderer, 10 people have died. Yet you show clips of an Israeli soldier getting beaten by sticks. This appalls you more than these deaths.
These people were activists from many countries including Ireland, Germany, Sweden, Britain as well as Arab countries. There aim was not to terrorise but to help. Do you think Israel would release them if they were terrorists? Even Netanyahu, said
"We are not charging them with anything, we have detained them and we will help them leave our country,"
Hardly terrorist treatment.
I'm impervious to your 'evidence' Solomon as it shows one small part of it, but enough to feed your biased mind.
This has been internationally condemned. Even the us are side-stepping away from you with this one.
Brian,
To set the record straight I think you'll find it was me who was the author of 'criminal rabble' and the despicable "ten nil"; not Solomon.
I know you must have difficulty in comprehension but you must pay more attention or you will forever be driven by your emotions. I thought Martin (Solomon) may have been a bit harsh in describing you as being full of hate and destruction. But, alas, it seems he hit the nail on the head.
Not only can you not follow who said what, it seems you can't even be bothered to listen to the "peace activist's" own words:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3L7OV414Kk&feature=player_embedded
Yet you can seriously say:
"There aim was not to terrorise but to help."
and
"I'm impervious to your 'evidence' Solomon"
Yes, Martin pegged you correctly.
I was referring to the previous posts as a collective. I know Solomon did not say that. I made the wild assumption the Solomon and yourself probably share similar views. I apologise Solomon if you do not feel that way regarding the '10 nil' comment.
I have no difficulty in comprehension though I simply see this situation different to you. I'm not sure what your point is with the clip? You no doubt see a group of angry, terrorist arabs intent on destruction and committing terrible atrocities. I see a group of people pissed off with years of violence and cruelty on people they have a affinity with and an intent to help them. You can't do this nicely when Israel is trying to stop you. Yes, they are angry and yes, they will fight especially when a dozen or so IDF soldiers drop down on to their boat.
If you could expand on why you think I am full of hate and destruction? You really are quite off the mark there.
And if I am so full of hate, how am i the only one with an ounce of compassion for the 10 dead civilians (even if that is a loose term by your account). I also hope all of the injured recover fully and i include the IDF soldiers in this. I believe the ship was delivering aid, and only aid, to Gaza yet i do not revel in seeing an IDF soldier beaten with sticks. The vast majority of people as well as the vast majority of soldiers are placed in dangerous situations because of government greed for land, power and money.
Solomon said i was impervious to his evidence. I believe that there are clearly two sides to this and everything and to fish out clips blatantly showing one side only tells half the story.
Do you understand at all why people would want to deliver aid to Gaza? Seriously, can you not show any reasoning towards people who want to deliver supplies to men, women and children in an area in such an appalling state?
Brian,
You addressed your comment to Solomon and stated as part of that address “It's not exactly hard for the IDF to win 'ten nil' as you despicably put it” The key word being “you” can only refer to Solomon. So you are being disingenuous when you now say “I was referring to the previous posts as a collective. I know Solomon did not say that.”
Your apology to Solomon may have had some merit had you just said you were wrong and moved along.
My point with the clip is that it makes your statement that "There aim was not to terrorise but to help" untrue. If you bothered to look at the problem dispassionately you would see that from the many videos and reports available on the net that the object of many of those on board the Marmara, who attacked the commandos, was anything but to help. Unless you mean helping the furtherance of the global jihad and/or the delegitimisation of Israel
As for the ten dead civilians. This is not a child’s game - it is about an existential and unremitting assault on Israel by anti Semites and their deluded leftist enablers. You talk of an IDF soldier being “beaten with sticks”. I saw a lynch mob and remembered Sgt.-Maj.(res.) Vadim Novesche and Sgt.-Maj. (res.) Yosef Avrahami lynched by Palestinian Islamists in Ramallah.
These are the images I see:
http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/7122/1469/1600/Lynching%20in%20Ramlah%2C%20horrible%20image.jpg
http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/7122/1469/1600/lynching1.jpg
To reduce this lynch mob to civilians beating soldiers with sticks is obscene.
These terrorists are enemies of Israel and I shed no tears when they are killed by IDF troops in the circumstances onboard the Marmara.
In standard English, you is both singular and plural so don't try and be a smart arse.
And I didn't apologise for my views only if I misunderstood Solomon. Not really the issue though is it?
Didn't you say i had difficulty in comprehension?
They had 10,000 tonnes of supplies none of which were weapons. So unless they had plans to terrorise people with wheelchairs, grain and medical supplies they were there to help.
They were not terrorists which is why Israel has released every one of them, they found nothing menacing on any of the 6 boats.
I think your real point is that you shed no tears for any anti-Israel personal who are killed, it does not actually matter to you if they are terrorists or not.
And no it's not a childs game, it's a cowards game where armed IDF soldiers murder activists.
You're simply spouting slogans and overwrought rhetoric.
There were no problems aboard the non-Turkish ships. It was the one ship where violence was planned and where members of a Turkish terrorist group, the IHH, were standing ready that the trouble occurred. To call these people civilians does damage to the language.
If these were peaceful people, they would have taken up the offer from Israel OR Egypt to transfer the goods via land. They didn't, because that wasn't their intent. They wanted a provocation, preferably violent. People like Greta Berlin and Huwaida Arraf have a well known intention -- destroying Israel. If all they wanted was to bring in "aid" (a drop in the bucket compared to what Israel already transfers in), they could easily have done so. They chose not to.
It's amusing to see Brian Beddowes lecture us on standard English. Even a cursory reading of his comments shows that he has yet to master elementary reading comprehension, let alone the mechanics of how pronominal reference and punctuation work.
He is indeed impervious to facts. Including the question of whether the Gazans suffer under the boots of their despotic Hamas overlords or Israel. It's nearly five years since Israel removed every last Jew from the flourishing Gush Qatif communities—every last one, even the dead buried there—leaving behind millions of dollars worth of infrastructure the Gazans could have used to build up their economy.
He also ignores a salient fact that about the flotilla's cargo. It was delivered to Gaza via the land crossings, after being unloaded and inspected in Ashdod, but it amounts to less that what is delivered to Gaza every single day.
He also ignores other pertinent facts: there is no shortage of food in Gaza, as pictures of the marketplaces and the 5-star restaurants make clear. In fact, the standard of living in Gaza is better than in some Arab countries, which has something to do with why Egypt has wanted to keep the borders closed. If some Gazans aren't doing too well, wouldn't the fact that Hamas is destroying houses, leaving people homeless, in order to build mosques and Islamic centers?
No, the mono-manaical focus on demonizing Israel and ignoring everything else indeed is a mask for hatred, a very special hatred. It's the oldest hatred: judenhass (hatred of Jews), more usually referred to by the euphemism "antisemitism." Poor Brian sees everything in black-and-white terms: It's all the fault of the JOOZ; they're the only bad actors.
It's a total waste of time trying to talk with someone who's analysis is so simple-minded and comprehensive. Brainless Brain's feeble, closed mind can't comprehend the fact that on board the ship of fools and useful idiots, there were provocateurs. Al-Jazeera's videos translated by PMW indeed show that there were jihadi warriors bent on murder, mayhem and "martyrdom."
youcancallmemeyer,
icancallyougreat.
To the guy with the fashionably unshaven face, cigarette and dark sunglasses and Israeli flag,
you are THE MAN.
There's many grammatical errors here but i really could not care careless given the subject of this topic.
I corrected youcancallmemeyer as he was wrong in accusing me of disingenuous due to him not reading 'you' the right way.
Christ almighty Nappy, you paint Gaza as if it's a holiday resort. Would you want to go there?
5 star hotels, no shortage of food, some of the people aren't doing too well. Are you serious? You claim i do not know the facts? you call me simple-minded? please
It's incredible how someone with such an amazing grasp of the english language can speak such nonsense.
No you see things as black and white. Because of my views over the aid ship you come to the conclusion that i hate jews. Well i do not. I have a problem with the blockade, not because a jewish state enforces it. I'd condemn anyone who is for that. I condemn the USA for Cuba's blockade too but not because they are christian. So you can put that cheap antisemitism card back in your pocket.
And no, if Gazans are not doing well it's because of the blockade. They are massively under nourished and very short of food.
There were no weapons on the ship Nappy, understand? none? so if indeed they jihadi warriors bent on murder, mayhem they wasn't really going to achieve this with medicine, grain and second hand clothing now where they?
Apologies in advances for any grammatical errors...
Brian Beddowes, your grammar is the least of it. It's your proleptic statements announced as if they possess oracular force, it's your unsupported assertions, it's your passive-aggressive questions; it's your own self-blinkered and self-blinded rubbish.
Given the history, such as the rockets fired by Hamas (and Hezbollah in the north), the blockade is entirely warranted; also, the Israelis allow tons and tons and tons of food and medical and other supplies every week into Gaza; there has been an on-going and never-ending jihadist and strategic/tactical initiative against Israel since its inception. E.g., even when, on Israel's own painful initiative under Sharon's premiership, they vacated Gaza (2005?), rendering Gaza Judenrein or Judenfrei - an extraordinary concession in and of itself - the Sunni Arabs destroyed much of the infrastructure and capital (e.g., the multi-million dollar greenhouse industry that was left to them and that had pre-established markets into Europe, Russia and other parts of the world) simply because it had been associated with Jews. Such acts reflect, among other things in that local Sunni Arab culture, a systematic and institutionalized hatred of Jews as such, simply and solely because they are Jews.
If you fail to take such blatant evidence into account, that omission, that elision, reflects upon your own self-blinded and self-blinkered views, it reflects upon your own truncated intellectual and moral/ethical acumen, it reflects your own sloppy and inconsequential opining on the subject.
It's as if you're a middle-schooler or high-schooler who has read Howard Zinn for the first time, and now give yourself license to pronounce, as if you're some type of oracle.
You may win hands down on punctuation and the knowledge of nice long words. But it would seem that is where the intelligence stops.
'Given the history' Michael, is that the whole history? is that both sides of history? Hamas have fired rockets and Israel have fired rockets. This is not exactly controversial stuff i'm spouting here. Both sides have murdered innocent people, both jews and arabs. The fact that you call me blinkered is obscene. You are practically putting your fingers in your ears and screaming 'lalalalalalalala' when any anti-Israel facts are mentioned.
You are blinkered, you are self-blinded. You paint Israel as such victims when they are the exact opposite. Again you say they have a hatred of jews. Well, Michael, it's quite clear many Israeli's have a hatred of Arabs too.
Your support of the blockade is despicable. Do i seriously need to provide evidence to show how bad this blockade is?
And how would you feel if you were Gazan, would you not hate jews and all that they stand for? This blockade will only cause more hate and create more anti-Israel feeling.
Oh and how jolly nice of Israel to let them have Gaza with all it's international markets and then surround it with a blockade on both land and sea? mmmm wonder if they want Gaza to struggle? perhaps they want to..i don't know...weaken them by not allowing the necessary amount of tools and medicine though so they can prosper, gain wealth and become strong?
No, what I "win" with is supportive detail, supportive evidence - in support of my statements. What you attempt to win with is a picknose arrogation and presumption.
I'm well acquainted with much of the history and evidence, back to the first aliyah, c. 1880's, back to the "Grand" Mufti of Jerusalem, Mohammad Amin al-Husayni - or al-Husseini - who was appointed c. 1920 and who eventually became Himmler's and Hitler's Arab Muslim propagandist and co-worker in the fields of Hitler's Holocaust.
Michael B. Oren, editorial in the NYT, excerpt:
"PEACE activists are people who demonstrate nonviolently for peaceful co-existence and human rights. The mob that assaulted Israeli special forces on the deck of the Turkish ship Mavi Marmara on Monday was not motivated by peace. On the contrary, the religious extremists embedded among those on board were paid and equipped to attack Israelis — both by their own hands as well as by aiding Hamas — and to destroy any hope of peace.
"Millions have already seen the Al Jazeera broadcast showing these “activists” chanting “Khaibar! Khaibar!”— a reference to a Muslim massacre of Jews in the Arabian peninsula in the seventh century."
[...]
"The real intent of breaking the embargo is to allow rockets to be transported to Gaza from Hamas’s suppliers in Syria and Iran. Israel has already intercepted several such ships laden with munitions. Since Israel’s disengagement from Gaza in 2005, Hamas has fired more than 10,000 rockets and mortars at our civilian population. This week, two Hamas rockets exploded near Ashkelon, one of Israel’s largest cities."
[...]
"Israel will scrupulously review the events surrounding the Marmara’s interception. But Israel will also persist in denying advanced weaponry to Hamas. At the same time, the Israeli government will vigorously pursue peace with the Palestinian Authority, which shares our need for defense against armed extremists. The real peace activists are those who support our vision of a two-state solution, not those supporting the terrorists bent on destroying it."
h/t Maverick Philosopher
Save your quotes. They are so twisted and one-sided it's untrue.
It's such common knowledge I am not even going to bother stating Israel attacks on Gaza. Do you even admit to these? do you think all rocket attacks are wrong? or just the arabs ones?
They were not terrorists and had no rockets, only aid. Israel do not only have a problem with ship delivering weapons they also have a problem with ships delivering aid. This is proved by the 'Rachel Corrie' ship due to arrive today. It's delivering hundreds of tonnes of aid, including wheelchairs, medical supplies and cement and is being delivered by five Irish and six Malaysian activists. Israel has already started with the threats. These people too are not terrorists.
Israel do not want Gaza to become strong. They do not want them to build into a thriving community with a strong economy. Israel want Gaza to stay to stay isolated in poverty.
Advanced weaponary?? who are they? the A-Team? were they planning to attack Israel on cement firing wheelchairs?
Also, they are activists not peace activists. They are not a bunch of hippies and will fight if the IDF board their ship. Fighting to get aid to Gaza is much more honorable than killing to protect the blockade.
And they are very far from 'special forces'. Special forces do not kill unarmed activists, the IDF does.
The Israeli government are an absolute disgrace and no better than the 'terrorists' they condemn.
Oh and how terrifying this woman is. I can see why the IDF had to 'protect themselves' against these 'violent supporters of terrorism' and that imbecile Netanyahu recently claimed.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/10225608.stm
Good. Since they had no weapons, only aid, they should have no problem having the cargo checked and passed on through the legal channels, which is exactly what's happening.
The video clearly shows that those who were killed were not unarmed civilians, but combatants who gave up their protected status the moment they became violent. The record and evidence are clear on this.
I consider the blockade to be illegal whatever laws Israel and the US make up.
Therefore, I believe that Israel have no right to stop these ships.
Who is checking deliveries to Israel for weapons? why are Israel allowed an endless supply of missiles and almost 400 nuclear warheads. Yet they have the god given right to point the finger at anyone else as if they are the shining light of morality. It's pure hypocrisy. Would you not then have a problem if arabs wanted to check deliveries to Israel? Would you obediently oblige?
When attacking that boat Israel instantly cries 'we have to defend our land'. Well believe me Israel in one 'well defended land'. The blockade is pathetic and in-humane as are it's supporters.
The video clearly shows footage that Israel want people to see. Once the footage of 9 or so people being murdered by the IDF is released then we can have a debate. I wonder why that has not been released? mmm...i wonder...
I think you kind of hit the nail on the head there Solomon. A protected status is indeed given up once anyone becomes violent.
As long as Israel have the blockade which is stronger than an act of violence they to lose their protected status. As long as Israel launches rocket attacks and drops bombs on Gazans Israel loses it's protection status. It does not just work one way. As long as Israel continues that blockade they'll continue to encourage people to become violent against them.
Every land has a right to defend itself which i'm afraid for you, includes arab ones.
You skip from making legal arguments and using legal terminology to "I make it up as I go along." I'm glad you admit this, and that your previous use of words like "legal" and "illegal" just reflect your preferences. (In other words, they are meaningless.)
The blockade is legal and internationally recognized. It is enforced not only by Israel but by Egypt as well, and no sovereign state has yet challenged it.
I'm also glad you're not trying to challenge the *fact* that aid, even the aid on these ships (a drop in the bucket), gets in to Gaza.
The fact that you don't see any difference between Israel and Hamas and the other states and entities that have promised to wipe the Jews from the map just exposes what a moral reprobate you -- and most of the others who support the so-called Free Gaza Movement -- really are. Facts don't matter to you, and morality is on its head.
Fortunately, most people can clearly see the truth of the old adage that if the Arabs were to lay down their arms there would be peace, but if Israel were to lay down its arms there would be no Israel.
Now, I think I've been more than generous with space for you, but I have no intention of letting my blog be used as a propaganda outlet ad infinitum for someone for whom the truth is elastic.
Solomon,
Whilst you support that blockade you cannot question anyone else's morality. You need to take a step back and look at the bigger picture. The problem is though you can't. You will stand by Israel no matter what and have no capability of seeing anything from the other side.
The blockade is also internationally condemned.
by the UN:
http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=32967&Cr=palestin&Cr1
The British government:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/10200517.stm
And even the US:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37482341/
Oh and thanks so much for your 'space'.
Actually, the "blockade" is universally recognized, not condemned. You've given me the personal opinions of individuals who don't like it. Not the same thing. It carries the weight of international law AND common sense.
Brian,
Did you know that Gaza shares a border with Egypt?
ss
Christ Solomon, you're just all heart aren't you?
You think it's common sense to blockade Gaza?
And these individuals are the president of the USA, the prime minister of the UK and the head of the UN.
I have not got a great deal of respect for many international laws. I'm not talking about law, i'm talking about the people. Millions of people oppose it. And the only silver lining out of the aid ship escapade is that many more will.
Yes Sally I do.
And your point is?
the point is that
if the priority is getting aid to the population, there are other options than the one which was used.
isn't that obvious?
ss
Yes, the free Gaza supporters did think of that one.
The thing is though Egypt also enforce the blockade.
The president of Egypt Hosni Mubarak is quite simply a spineless puppet of the USIsrael.
In January of this year he ordered a brutal bloody assault by 2,000 riot policemen on the Viva Palestina humanitarian aid convoy.
So there isn't any other option.