Beth is looking for a car. Coincidentally, the wife and I also spent today car-shopping. This will primarily be my wife's car so the choice was her's. Considerations were cargo space, safety, handling in bad weather, reliability and PRICE. Based on these considerations and what she's seen people driving she had the choices narrowed to the Subaru Forester and the Honda CR-V. Either will be the 2004 versions so as to get the best deal possible, and we're shooting for a minimum of goo-gaws other than an auto-transmission - again, trying to keep costs down.

We'll also be trading in a '94 Jetta with only 40K miles on it (never have liked that car - lotta problems).

I got a quote from the local Honda dealer through cars.com for $21420 and we went down and saw him and took a test drive. We liked the car. Peppy with a light feel on the wheel (very different from the ponderous feeling of the Jetta). Good turning radius. Small-size SUV, but still higher off the ground than a regular car - I felt like my ass was dragging on the ground when I got back into my Saturn. Good cargo space, and the feel of the space inside was good. The suspension is tight, so you do feel every rut in the road, which is a slight minus. I liked the straightforward manner of the salesman, that is his "here's the price" manner which was in contrast to the Subaru dealer which I'll get to. I dread negotiating situations, and in fact I drive a Saturn now because I liked their "no negotiating" policy. I knew I didn't need to worry about any of that crap and the cars are good (103,000 miles and counting). The sales guy wasn't all that great at explaining some things - like how the AWD works, and he couldn't really respond to what the Subaru guy had said (we briefly talked with a Subaru dealer a few days previous) about the safety issues including roll-over risk with the CR-V.

On the whole, our hearts like this car. I'll be taking the Jetta by tomorrow morning to see what they'll give us on trade.

After Honda we went over to the Subaru dealer. This guy hadn't given me a straightforward quote - maybe because I screwed up my phone number when filling out the form - but that's OK. We went over to take a drive.

We also liked the car quite a bit. It's a little lower than the CR-V - more of a tall station wagon than an SUV. Cargo and cab space isn't quite as good as the CR-V, although it has a lot of interesting touches (even an umbrella pocket!). It feels heavier than the Honda, has a heavier wheel, seems to handle better around turns, smooths out the bumps better - overall it has a far more solid feeling. Not as peppy as the Honda. The salesman was more knowledgeable, but he has a good product, focusing on the safety features like how it handles a crash and the low risk of roll-over due to the height and especially the unusual engine piston design the Subarus have (rather than being on top of the engine, the cylinders face each other at the sides of the engine).

While out hearts were with the Honda, the feeling we had was that the Subaru was the winner for safety and bad-weather handling. At least that's my perception given what I felt and how I understand the drive-systems to function. It may even win for overall quality as well.

Still, our hearts were with the Honda. It just seems a more fun car, but my head is telling me, "Subaru."

Gas mileage us about equal, BTW.

The trouble with the Subaru is that when we got back in, the salesman found out that the only 2004 base model they had in silver (the only color my wife will accept - and I agree, the others are ugly) was sold. They have a silver, but it's got some more optional doo-dads like heated seats, side windows, wipers (!) and a better sound system. Nice options, but they add to the cost and we don't need them.

Here's where the annoying part comes in. These guys just wouldn't give us a straight quote on the thing. "What is the price?" always got some nonsense answer like, "Oh, it's almost the same!" How much more are the 2005's? Oh, they're almost the same - just mumble3000moremumble. They were the types that wanted to know what we were looking for as a payment and then they were going to base everything off that. BS. We're putting down $15K, so the payment isn't going to be much anyway. That doesn't mean I'm going to flush $2000 dollars down the shitter, either. When we asked him to run the numbers on the fancier model the sales guy had to bring the finance guy over. They said something about "pretty much" giving us the fancier car at the base model price, and he was even willing to start throwing numbers at me for the trade sight-unseen. They did not want to let us get out the door, but we thanked them, said we had to think about it and off we went.

Bottom line is that they want to move those 2004's. It's a nice car. The price will be similar to the Honda, but I'm afraid to go back there to find out for sure what the final deal is by showing them the Jetta because I'll never get out of there. I get it, anyway. Money isn't going to be the final deciding factor at this level. It'll come down to the car we really want to drive.

In the afternoon we took the Jetta to the self-serve car wash and gave it the business inside and out. Whoo. Filthy, but it cleaned up pretty good. I'm thinking we should get at least $2500 for it with the low mileage, but I'm not gonna be too picky. I don't want to deal with selling it on our own. (Anyone looking?)

So that was today's saga. We'll be making the choice soon. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if I grabbed something tomorrow. Either way I know we'll be wondering if we shoulda got the other one. OTOH, eventually we'll be getting something else as I'll need to trade my Saturn for something more practical for work, so there will be another new car experience before long no matter what.