Saturday, October 23, 2004
Professor Bainbridge reacts at length to the Carol Gould article discussed below. Worth reading.
ProfessorBainbridge.com: Anti-Semitism and Anti-Americanism in the UK
I have not been in London for 20 years, but I can only hope the most extreme behaviour is atypical. The taxi driver quoted just leaves me dumfounded; I can only suggest sheer idiocy coupled with a vile nature. The behaviour of 'Lady E' on the bus and the shopkeeper suggest to me that they are, frankly, mentally disturbed. In my recollection, most Londoners would go to almost any lengths NOT to interact with anyone else on public transport. Which may explain the failure of other passengers to intervene. Congratulations to the lady who finally pushed that obnoxious woman away. As for the shopkeeper, apart from being unbalanced, I would take him for a rather nasty specimen of anti-Semitism, who frankly needs a rather physical lesson in manners.
In regard of Ms. Gould's more general experiences, I think at least part of the explanation may be her social milieu. She mentions, for instance, "a Human Rights Conference at my local synagogue", and "my trade union, the National Union of Journalists". It is in precisely those circles that far-left idiocy is likely to be particularly prevalent...
He delves into several of the issues. Read it all.
Which really shows how knee jerk your reaction was.
Yes I don't doubt that there are those who have anti-semitic views but they are very much in the minority over here. Your take on the situation, as you read into somebodys posting on another board, was wrong.
As the professor says you are just seeing extreme views in the UK press, the majority of the population have what I wouldn't call an apathetic outlook but we just don't get excited so quickly so don't react in the same way. If there was to suddenly be a march of browncoats in London you would be very suprised at the sudden mobilisation of a massive backlash.
Actually, if you look at my reaction you'll see that I was skeptical that things were that overtly bad. While I believe her anecdotes I don't believe they're that universal. I do, however, believe you have a problem with anti-semitism, in Europe generally and the UK in particular, it's just not as overt and over the top as this particular author suggests.
[QUOTE]I do, however, believe you have a problem with anti-semitism, in Europe generally and the UK in particular, [/QUOTE]
Well I don't see it and have heard nobody voice or behave or even talk about it in all my years. In fact the only time I have heard anything at all about the subject was from someone who had been shit on froma great height by a banker who just happened to be Jewish.
We even make jokes where the butt would be jewish and have to explain why it's funny because people under a certain just don't get it. They haven't heard any of the old stereotyping in their life.
Rather than post quoted chunks from the press post your reasons for having these views, then maybe we can help.
Must remember to:
A) read a post before hitting the post button
B) use a spell checker
I'm not seeking help! :) There are over 4500 posts on this blog. A fairly large number of them pointers to articles and the like on the subject of antisemitism, particularly in Europe. Many of them are written by Europeans. I appreciate that you don't feel it's commonplace or even often present, but that's only your experience - another anecdote - and that could be because it never has occasion to come up in your circles, or you may not even recognize it when it does because it's part of the soup you swim in. I do take it as a data point, however. A data point, not the final word.
Now, if you're going to hang around here, you're going to have to not be defensive. You're going to have to understand that not every post here is a self-contained position paper replete with proofs of every assertion. Some are just pointers, and some are just rants, and most are built upon a groundwork previously laid down, but hang around awhile, maybe visit some of the sites I link to, and you'll start building a bit of the groundwork to understand the viewpoint here a bit better.
You are more than welcome to give your impressions, but just don't expect that you can just step in and give the final word on how things are. Data is coming in from elsewhere as well.
I will give you someplace to start. Have a gander at your Parliamentarian Tam Dalyell here and (search on Dalyell in the search box for a bit more) and imagine what would have been the outcry here in the US had a member of Congress made the same remarks. No need to respond!! Just read. Bully for you if you're already familiar with it. Perhaps you don't think it's a big deal. To me it is an important data point, as are the postings I've read from our friends.
Let me plant another seed in anticipation of something I'm sure you're thinking. No, not all criticism of Israel is antisemitic per se. On the other hand, just saying you're criticising Israel doesn't guarantee that it's not, either.