"Wheels of Jihad" isn't stopping by?

What a NAKBAH!

:D

Sol, my daughter goes to AHS, and she's distraught over the fact that the "wheels" were stopped (and actually APD had to come and remove Fouda et al. from the premises.) Could you briefly and in simple jargon-free language respond to this, or in a sesparate post, explaining who these people are, and why she and her schoolmates are lucky to not have gone through such mind-pollution today?
I'd appreciate it.
LNH

Louis, that's a tall order to try to do concisely. I can try, or I can ask someone who's good at explaining this type of thing to help out.

The micro-version is that the groups involved here are not really educational groups, they are advocates for particular causes. To have them in to discuss the Middle East and American Politics would be like...what's a good comparison...say, having a Christian Evangelist come and discuss comparitive religion. Do you think they're actually there to tell you the honest merits of Hinduism?

And to be honest, a better example would be having the Klan in to talk about race relations. That may sound like an extreme example, but it's actually not far off the mark.

Here is some info at ADL about the Wheels of Justice tour:
http://www.adl.org/main_Israel/wheels_of_justice.htm

The International Solidarity Movement:
http://www.adl.org/Israel/israel_int_solidarity.asp

and Al Awda:
http://www.adl.org/Israel/israel_protest_calendar_groups.asp#1

There's a LOT more out there on all these things, and a lot more explaining that could be done, but I'll leave it there and you can tell me if you need more.

I am a student at AHS and do not agree with the "Wheels of Justice" not being allowed to speak at all. In the US the only viewpoint we are shown on the subject of the turmoil in the Middle East is that of the Jews. So much of what we see and hear about it is extremely biased. For anyone to fully understand. Not to mention it was essentially a violation of the First Amendment. There is also the fact that there were other teachers handing out flyers with Dr. Francis.

All of the information you have used to back up your opinions is biased. The ADL is Pro-Israel, so basically any opinion that supports the Palestinians is considered anti-semitic by it. Did the Andover resident who gave you the information even read the flyer? If they did, their recollection of it sounds quite altered to support your opinion that all Dr. Francis does is spew out propaganda.

I'm also guessing that you are not familiar with the quote, "One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter."

Looking back over my comment, I have realized how inarticulate it is. I'll come back tomorrow when I'm not half asleep to give a better reply.

Mike,

If you think the ADL is "biased", what do you think "Wheels of Justice (sic)" is?

Ask "Wheels of Justice" whether they go to Iraq and demand that the "insurgents" stop killing Iraqis almost everyday.

Or if the "tour" goes to "palestine" and demand that the plo and hamas stop brainwashing children to become "shaheeds" and strap on bomb belts to murder Israelis.

http://www.wtvt.com/investreptr/jihad.html

Or why did Muslims bomb PanAm 103 which crashed over Lockerbie Scotland?

Or why did Muslim Pakistan and Hindu India almost have a nuclear war over land - Kashmir?

Or why did Saddam Hussein use poison gas and murder 5,000 Kurds in Halabja Iraq?

Or have the "Wheels of Justice" denounce the mini-me president of the Islamofascist Republic of iran who openly declares his intention of "wiping out" Israel?

I'd like to see you ask "Wheels of Justice" why they don't hold Muslim entities to the same standards as they hold non-Muslim nations?

The "Wheels of Jihad" is a traveling anti-American, anti-Israeli, anti-Western propaganda circus.

Hi Mike,

You expressed yourself just fine. Let me address a few things:

1) It's not a "Jewish" perspective on the Middle East we get, but one put forward by many people, not just Jews. Viewpoints don't have religion, there are honest narratives and there are dishonest narratives. If that favores one "side" over the other, then it is what it is. If you think something is "biased," find out the facts and see if they contradict what you've been told, but don't say some truth is "Jewish" and make that the basis for writing it off. That's highly offensive.
2) WoJ is not just anti-Israel, they are a radical anti-American group as well.
3) I'm familiar with the quote "One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter" and think it reflects quite badly on those who repeat it. It begs the question, "What kind of man are you?" Ron Francis is the kind of man for whom Hamas are freedom fighters, not terrorists. That's quite sad.
4) ADL is a perfectly mainstream group with a long track record of doing a lot of good for many groups of people. They do not label all criticism of Israel as anti-Semitic, that's just factually wrong. Being against terrorism isn't the same as being "anti-Palestinian." ADL and every other maintream group who speaks out against the groups represented by WoJ are for a Palestinian State and a two state solution. Al Awda, as a for instance, is not.
5) This is not a free speech issue. The people who choose your texts and choose the people who teach you constantly pick and choose what to present you. They would not choose a text or a teacher who they knew were going to tell lies. Unfortunately, you do not have the experience or knowledge to sort out the truth from the lies, or the good analysis from the bad. That's just a fact. Some things are inappropriate for the High School setting.

I'm very well familiar with the groups who were being brought in, and they are, as Louis says above, a poison. There are ways to bring a balanced and honest presentation into the school, WoJ is NOT it.

Oh Mike, if you want to set the record straight on that flyer, by all means scan it and email it to me. I'd be happy to take a look.

My daughter attended a presentation by another similar group in which innocent (uninformed) american students were informed that "for no reason whatsoever" israeli soldiers came in and blew up palestinian houses. now a suicide bomb in a market place may strike these folks as nothing, but they are quick to consider "humiliation" at a checkpoint a justification for suicide terrorism. it's just this kind of dishonest narrative that Solomon is talking about.

and on the point about "freedom of speech", there's nothing that says a high school -- or even a university -- has to allow anyone to speak. by offering a platform for a speaker, the institution endorses the ideas as at least "within the pale" of acceptable discourse. when this group is prevented from speaking at an event they have planned at a venue they pay for and advertise, then we're talking about lack of freedom of speech. the school provides a captive audience.

and just like the truly captive audiences in the middle east where kids are taught genocidal hatreds by adults whose only concern is fighting for their honor, these groups aim their emotionally laden propaganda at people who have no defenses.

i think Solomon's best analogy is having the KKK come talk about race relations. actually, i'm not sure that the KKK is advocating for groups that have openly genocidal agendas. (and if you think this is excessive language, you must visit Palestinian Media Watch.)

r

While the ADL has many admirable qualities, they do seem to have a problem with free speech these days, as documented by this letter in the current NY Review of Books. A number of the letter's signers are from The New Republic, a publication that is indisputably pro-Zionist.

Cry me a river for Tony Judt, Ron. Good luck getting space on his schedule. But really, do you think that's an important point to make in the context of this issue here? A swipe at the ADL? I don't think ADL is perfect, no group is, but I'll tell you what, you can have Al Awda, CNI, the ISM, ICAHD, IfAmericansKnew...and I'll take the ADL any day of the week. You should too.

Ron, let me be a little clearer here. I don't want to be accused of shorting you. The reasons that those people have for writing that letter to the ADL in that specific situation are totally different than the reasons that Ron Francis, Mazin Qumsiyeh and their ilk hate the ADL. I think you know that. These are hard-core anti-semitic groups and the ADL has no purpose if not to at least pick up a phone in this situation. I certainly hope they did (but don't know whether or not they did or not). They are certainly a legitimate information source for students to refer to for information in any case.

Why don't you attack Joe Carr, who was also a part of this visit to Andover HIgh? He was a part of Christian Peacemaker Teams. Are you going to assail this group? How much religious hatred can you stir up?

As a Roman Catholic of Irish-German heritage, I can assure you that Sol has never shown the slightest propensity toward demeaning any racial, ethnic or religious group. He often goes out of his way to offer opportunities to discuss views different than his own. What he does do(very effectively), and I fully support this position, is to expose individuals and groups who use the guise of education and discussion to vilify, demonize, intimidate or demean those of differing views. Wheels of Justice is one such group, among many others. Their sole intent is to prosthylize; using misinformation, altered text, staged news and outright fabrications to offer a distorted view on a number of issues. Over the last several years, Sol has earned my respect, which I do not give easily, and I certainly value his opinions, even when we differ.

Here's the bottom line. Francis is a nice guy and a well loved teacher. But as someone mentionned above, at AHS he is afforded a captive audience of deferential students who are willing to swallow hook line and sinker anything he says. This, to me, amounts to hypocrisy and intellectual dishonesty, pure and simple. When a (granted, very good and popular) physics teacher uses his academic position to venture into ideological and philosophical advocacy and topics clearly outside of his academic expertise, then this is blatant bullying and intellectual intimidation. When Francis intellectualizes his philosophical biases and passes them on as fact to impressionable and deferential young (PHYSICS for pete's sake) learners who have no basis with which to measure, counter, or refute them, then (in my book) there's something terribly wrong with the academy in general, and with the school system that affords him this sort of immunity and impunity. This, to me, amounts to nothing short of preaching, intellectual bullying and intimidation. I don't send my kids to school in order to learn about morality or the Arab-Israeli conflict from a physics teacher.

Francis is clearly overstepping the bounds of his academic training when be uses his position to advocate for Palestinian rights. But let's assume for a moment that he has the right to do so (of course he doesn't) at AHS; shouldn't he show some intellectual backbone and integrity by presenting the Palestinian narrative (for which he feels so strongly) alongside the antipodal and equally legitimate Israeli narrative? Isn't it his job as an educator to provide my children with the knowledge and intellectual tools to make their own assessments and reach their own conclusions, rather than bullying (coaxing, or seducing) them into mindlessly swallowing HIS venom and HIS own personal predilections? Shouldn't this be the essence of his vocation and his professional obligation as an educator? Isn’t it his job to introduce my daughter (and others) to material they didn’t know a whole lot about beforehand (in his case preferably Physics, not Palestinianism)and provide them with the skills to evaluate and analyze those materials? Wouldn’t he be crossing the line as a professional when he's being paid to teach physics and ends up preaching morality—or, say, Palestinianism, or anti-Semitism, or Third-Worldism, or Christianity? Wouldn’t this be described as “practicing without a license” were it to take place in contexts outside of the academy?

I send my children to the public school system to get an education, not to learn morality and not to be intimidated into imbuing the personal biases and political engagements of their teachers. Teachers should do their jobs and TEACH, not preach. They should impart their knowledge in their OWN (not someone else's) areas of expertise; areas of expertise in which they were trained and for which they were hired, not spew propaganda and proselytize their personal biases and worldviews. I should hope that Dr. Francis would respect the wishes of those who help pay his salary, and reserve his personal and philosophical crusades to contexts outside the public school system. Dr. Francis is neither trained, nor paid to battle poverty, injustice, racism, intolerance, sexism, pollution, war, exploitation, colonialism, or discrimination (nor is he trained or expected to teach my daughter those topics.) When at Andover High, I should hope that Dr. Francis would stick to what he was trained to do, and to what—I am sure—he does wonderfully well; teach physics.
He can go do battle on behalf of the Palestinians—and other such "oppressed" peoples—on his own time; not on my daughter’s school time.

Louis,

Your comment is very articulate and powerful. I suggest you write a similar comment to the Andover Townsman and the Eagle-Tribune, to ensure that your important message reaches as wide an audience as possible.

Some points that have thus far been lacking in the discussion on this message board:

1) Francis openly advocates the destruction of Israel (and he always writes Israel in quotation marks because he believes that Israel has no right to exist)
2) Francis uses anti-Semitic stereotypes to make his points, such as saying that Zionists control the U.S. congress or that Zionists are good at manipulating the media, etc.
3) Francis has admitted paying AHS kids to work for his political orgs!

Francis is hardly the person who has a right to complain about a lack of balance or one-sided views. I am glad Andover is finally taking action against his inappropriate and unprofessional behavior.

Eric Danis

Mike,

I'm not sure what you meant by the following quote: "In the US the only viewpoint we are shown on the subject of the turmoil in the Middle East is that of the Jews."

There is no uniform Jewish opinion on any subject, let alone a subject as complicated as the Middle East. If you check out Francis' Somerville Divestment Project Website, he has actually posted the comments of some Jewish groups that support his own viewpoints (which are highly critical of Israel).

For thousands of years people have accused the Jews of attempting to "control" the media. These accusations have always said more about the accuser than they have about the accused. I think you should re-examine your claims and see if you can find views that are highly critical of Israel in almost every major newspaper and magazine (including the Boston Globe. I'm very confident that you will find such viewpoints if you look for them).

Eric Danis

Eric,

I know that my comment about the viewpoint we are shown is a bit flawed. It's not exactly what I meant either, but they are the only words that were close to what I was really trying to say. If you are familiar with "A People's History of the United States," then what I meant is that the Wheels of Justice are like the opposite viewpoint of what is commonly known that Howard Zinn wrote from. Granted they may be more biased and religious, but the basic idea is all the same. I'm not making claims about Jews controlling the media, that is the government's job(and an entirely different subject), what I am saying is that we aren't truly getting a two-sided story.

As a student of his, I have never had Dr. Francis make the slightest mention of his political opinions. Personally, I do not agree with many of them, but he does have the right to his own opinion.

Also I think many of you are expecting that the students of AHS will just believe everything they hear from Dr. Francis or the Wheels of Justice on this subject. We all have our own opinions and we develop them as we see fit. Just one speaker or teacher will not turn the school into a group of Anti-Semites.

I think it would have been good for the Wheels of Justice to have spoken, just so we could have heard another opinion. No matter how extreme it is, no one is forcing us to agree with it. That choice is placed upon each individual.

If the Wheels of Justice presentation is blatantly anti-semitic then I can understand why they were not allowed to speak. But the line between being blatant and just alluding to one's opinion is blurred and never the same for anyone. That is, of course, unless the Wheels of Justice comes out and just says "Israel is bad."

I know my ignorance of this subject is quite evident in my first post. It is a subject that I rarely discuss, and so my knowledge of it is limited leaving room for incorrect assumptions made on my part.

My name is Vladislav Davidzon. I was born to a a Jewish family that ran/immigrated from the Soviet Union because of blatant racism we faced. I was only ten years old when we moved, but I remember quite clearly the fear of my parents against pogroms. I have relatives who live in Israel near Tel Aviv. I am the founder and CEO of well known socially responsible internet company, and I was also one of the speakers on the Wheels Of Justice (and attended, although did not speak, during a previous talk by WOJ at Andover).

From a very young age, I was taught principles of justice, democracy and to give voice to those without one. I was taught that silence is the voice of complicity. I was taught all the social justice values of the Jewish culture. And I was taught the lessons of the Holocaust -- although unlike other Jewish kids, for me Never Again meant Never Again for anyone, not just Jews. And I certainly learned what racism truly meant.

And so after a young student from Olympia, WA was brutally murdered, in my name, by an armored bulldozer driven by a soldier of the Israeli Occupational Forces as she stood in front of a a house of a Palestinian doctor, I realized that to continue to be silent would be to be complicit. I bought a ticket to Tel Aviv and spent the next two months working with the International Solidarity Movement and the Israeli Committee against House Demolitions.

Like many I believe in justice. I believe in democracy. I believe in freedom. And I believe in working for those values, in speaking for those who lack a voice, even when doing so may imperil my own life. I've been shot at with live bullets, beaten, interrogated, and called every swearword under the sun. But I keep speaking because I believe that the day I cease speaking about things that truly matter, is the day I will begin to die.

I have personally witnessed numerous war crimes committed by the Israeli Army, and would willingly testify under oath in front of any competent court as to those crimes. From use of human shields, to collective punishment, to use of lethal force against unarmed civilians, the crimes I have witnessed were numerous. We hear daily of all the suffering of the Israeli citizens, but yet I was witness to the side whose voice is simply absent from the media. And it is a story that deserves to be heard.

Upon my return to the United States, I spent some time on the Wheels of Justice Bus, helping arrange the schedule and also giving talks. Quite simply, Wheels of Justice gives a voice to those without a voice. I spoke for those who cannot speak for themselves. For the farmer who one morning told us in broken English about how the Israeli Occupational soldiers threw tear gas grenades through the windows of their home, and how his three year old grand daughter suffocated, and how he buried her little body. For the parents whose children are shot daily for the crime of throwing rocks at armored tanks. For all the countless others, people just like you and I who are simply trying to live their lives.

The Wheels of Justice Bus is a group of speakers who have witnessed first-hand the situation on the ground in Iraq and Palestine. If we are biased, the bias is simply that of what he have witnessed first hand. However don't you dare throw baseless accusations of racism against us, especially not when so many of us come from Jewish families. All we are trying to do is give voice to those without a voice, to show a side that is entirely absent from the mainstream media.

Why are people so afraid of what we have to say? Why is it okay for Israel to spend billions of dollars to tell their side of the story in the United States, but when people like myself try to speak out, we're consistently silenced. What do you have to hide that you have to work so hard to silence us? What are you so afraid of? Why is there more diversity of opinion allowed in Israel about the Occupation than in the United States? Why does the truth scare you?

Silence is the voice of complicity and I will not be silent. These crimes will not be committed in my name.

PS Mike -- don't you ever let anyone tell you that you are not smart enough to figure out the truth for yourself. Do question those who filter the information you receive, and demand to know why they are so afraid for you to figure out the truth for yourself.

I am Jewish, was born in Haifa, emigrated to U.S., was taught that Jews are rightous.

I went to the West Bank in 2004 to see for myself what I heard about and hoped was not true. But I saw my "rightous" people engage in collective violation of nearly every human ideal.

Most Jews in the U.S. justify this degraded activity by claiming it is necessary to defend Israel. Apparently, these same Jews forget or ignore their own teachings, basing their justification on the activites of "those fanatical Palestinians." On that same basis, perhaps all Italians ought to be punished because the Mafia acted in the way it did. Or perhaps all white people should be punished because of the murder of the four schoolgirls in Birmingham, Alabama in 1963. Or perhaps all Jewish Israelis should be punished because Rabbi Baruch Goldstein used a machine-gun to murder twenty nine Arabs while they were kneeling down at prayer in Hebron.

The Wheels of Justice bus tells Americans some of what is kept out of normal U.S. media about what is happening in Israel/Palestine.

Is this anti-semitic? Only if Israeli policy is claimed to be Jewish policy, then there is reason to be against this Jewish policy.

In fact, the rest of the world is beginning to equate Israeli policy as Jewish policy, therefore increasing anti-semitism in the world. You wish to reduce anti-semitism? All the more reason, then, to get Israel to stop its degrading, inhuman, abusive activity toward Palestinians.

Fortunately, many Jews in Israel, as well as many Jews in the U.S., do not agree with Israeli policy. Are thse Jews anti-semitic? The Wheels of Justice does not dispense anti-semitic information. It dispenses information that points out anti-human activity against an entire population under occupation.

Only by witnessing this activity can anyone feel how terrible it is.

To learn more, for example, look at the website:
http://ifamericansknew.org/ .

Or look at the website for the Israel Committee Against House Demolitions: http://icahd.org/ and in particular: http://icahd.org/eng/about.asp?menu=2&submenu=1 to learn about what ICAHD is.

The people who stopped the Wheels of Justice presentation did not want students to learn some bad truths about people who are purportedly rightous.

Vlad,

You say you ran/immigrated (emmigrated) from the Soviet Union to the US knowing anti-semitism first hand, and now that you are free, you join people who support the killing of Jews and other NON-Muslims.

Why?

Please read up on the Stokholm Syndrome.

Eddie,

I choose to advocate for people who have no voice. What is being done to the Palestinians is immoral, plain and simple.

The Israeli side is being heard loud and clear, thanks to many millions of dollars Israel pours into their Public Relations. Why does the Palestinian side not deserve to be heard equally?

What are you so afraid of? And what happened to all those Jewish values of social justice? They simply do not apply because we want someone else's land? It is immoral and dead wrong.

Your implication that I in any way support terrorism is flat out dead wrong. I understand quite well why terrorism happens, but don't you dare try to blur the line between understanding the reasons for terrorism with supporting or apologizing for it.

Wheels of Justice is about leveling the playing field. It is about giving a voice to those who have been silenced. Why are you so afraid of that voice? What do you have to hide?

Hey, ISM guys, stop sending the "Jews" out to be your front-men here. It's offensive. Make your points on the merits. No one cares who your daddy is.

I've listened to the audio of the WoJ presentation that was given in Somerville, and I've never heard a more one-sided, tendentious accounting of history and current events in my life. Even the "right-wingers" on the pro-Israel side I've heard don't go as far in depriving the listener of the necessary facts to really understand what's been going on. It's quite remarkable. It's not "one side," it's fantasy.

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=14063

I just co-led a workshop with WOJ's Mazin Qumsiyeh (http://qumsiyeh.org/) at the Brooklyn Peace Fair, and I have a couple of friends who regularly participate in the "tour". I've also spent a few weeks in each of the past four years working in the West Bank with the International Solidarity Movement (ISM), Israeli Committee Against Home Demolitions (ICAHD), Rabbis for Human Rights, the Tel Rumeida Project, etc.

I've never encountered anybody in WOJ who was remotely anti-Semitic. They're not an impartial group, nor do they claim to be, but they do a great job of presenting a perspective on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict that is largely excluded from the American discourse. It's also a perspective that more accurately reflects the historical context, and certainly the present reality, than the much more commonly encountered "pro-Israel" material.

The Palestinian-Israeli conflict is one of the most critical issues in international politics, and bears directly on US security. Anybody who claims differently is either a fool or a liar. Personally, I'm involved in the conflict primarily for ethnical and religious reasons, because of what it means to me to be a Jew. Speaking as an American citizen and Navy veteran, though, I consider it absolutely vital that US voters (and future voters) are exposed to different perspectives on the conflict. Our nation simply has too much at stake in this situation to indulge ourselves in ideologically-driven censorship.

If people of my faith,(Christian) had driven another people from their lands (in these modern times)in 1948 and not allowed them back I wouldn't want others to know the truth either.
The worse shame is that Israel is still taking Palestinian lands every day. How can Israel say they want peace and still continue to rob and kill the people they want peace with?
Only when our nation tells Israel to stop taking Palestinian lands, and mean it, will justice and peace come to those lands.

Mike,

You wrote, "what I am saying is that we aren't truly getting a two-sided story."

This just isn't true. The American media tends to be more critical of Israel than it is of the Palestinians. Palestinian terrorists who murder children are usually called "militants" in most major media outlets. Universities are usually much more sympathetic to the Palestinian narrative (just ask the Wheels of Justice how many universities they've been invited to). You seem to think that someone is preventing Americans from hearing criticism of Israel. That couldn't be farther from the truth. Even Israeli media outlets are critical of Israel. Check out: www.haaretz.com. It's a liberal newspaper published in English that criticizes Israel every day.

Eric Danis

Anyone else noticing the patterns in these silly anti-Israel posts?

1) First, you state your Jewish "credentials":

FROM VLAD's LETTER: "I was born to a a Jewish family that ran/immigrated from the Soviet Union because of blatant racism we faced."

FROM YORAM'S LETTER: "I am Jewish, was born in Haifa, emigrated to U.S., was taught that Jews are rightous." (Try using a more realistic writing style next time: "I was taught that Jews are righteous"? Please. Who talks like that?).

2) Next, you claim to have witnessed atrocities (it is very important that you don't mention any specifics, so that nothing you say can be disproven - or proven):

FROM VLAD's LETTER: "I've been shot at with live bullets, beaten, interrogated, and called every swearword under the sun. But I keep speaking because I believe that the day I cease speaking about things that truly matter, is the day I will begin to die."

FROM YORAM'S LETTER: "I went to the West Bank in 2004 to see for myself what I heard about and hoped was not true. But I saw my 'rightous' people engage in collective violation of nearly every human ideal."

3) Claim that the Palestinian narrative isn't being heard, despite the fact that there are more than 50!) officially Muslim countries, many of them rich with oil money, and many of whom who have established Middle Eastern Studies centers at prominent American universities (there is of course only one Jewish country in the entire world). Any objective person will admit that universities tend to be far more supportive of the Palestinian narrative than the Israeli one. Additionally, in these days of the internet, anyone who wishes to hear the "Palestinian viewpoint" can easily find it with one click of his or her mouse. But these facts don't stop our modern day, would-be heroes:

FROM VLAD'S LETTER: "I choose to advocate for people who have no voice...The Israeli side is being heard loud and clear, thanks to many millions of dollars Israel pours into their Public Relations. Why does the Palestinian side not deserve to be heard equally?"

(Ever hear of a country called Saudi Arabia, which has billions in oil money and uses that money to influence U.S. public policy? Don't take my word for it, ask Michael Moore. Not to mention the fact that the Palestinians get a ton of aid every year from many different countries).

FROM YORAM's LETTER: "The Wheels of Justice bus tells Americans some of what is kept out of normal U.S. media about what is happening in Israel/Palestine."

Yup, apparently rich, deceitful Jews control the media and prevent it (since we all know the media is completely monolithic in the Internet/blog age) from telling the truth (which is known only by Yoram, Vlad and of course Wheels of Justice. Makes sense, right?).

4) Of course, your form letter (or post) isn't complete (according to ISM training camps) unless you harp on Israeli atrocities while making sure NEVER to criticize the Palestinians. You can't mention the fact that the Palestinians are governed by Hamas, a Palestinian terror group whose charter calls for the murder of "Jews" (not "Israelis," but "Jews"). You can't mention the fact that Palestinians deliberately target children in pizza parlors, and then afterwards hold parties celebrating the death of those children. You can't mention that the Palestinian society is extremely conservative and that minorities and homosexuals are extremely uncomfortable there. You can't mention the fact that even Prime Minister Mahmoud Abbas criticizes Palestinian terror and admits it has seriously hurt the Palestinian cause. You can't talk about Yasser Arafat rejecting peace in 2000 and then deciding to launch a terror war.

And you certainly can't ever say that the Iranian President has publicly expressed the sentiment that Israel must be "wiped off the map" and that he has denied the Holocaust.

Yoram and Vlad, do you support Palestinian terror? Do you support the 9/11 terrorists? Do you have a single bad word to say about anyone except Jews?

No, to be an effective propagandist, one must only pretend that one side (the Jewish one) is to blame.

Good work guys, you are following the ISM play-book well (but I would remove the "righteous" terminology, it sounds like you are trying a little too hard to sound authentic).

Eric Danis

Doug,

Your post was completely illogical and basically a complete fabrication:

"If people of my faith,(Christian) had driven another people from their lands (in these modern times)in 1948 and not allowed them back I wouldn't want others to know the truth either."

A) I guess that means you are a liar who values material goods (like land) more than the truth. Why are you bragging about that?

B) "Modern times" are defined as starting in 1948? Because many people would argue that European Christians drove off the Native Americans in "modern times." I'm from Massachusetts. Take a guess where the name of that state is from...

C) Why is it only immoral to lose land in "modern times"? The Jews were driven out of Israel thousands of years ago after establishing a sovereign state in the land of Israel (there has never been a sovereign Palestinian country that was governed by Palestinians). The Jews have an unbroken connection and continuous presence in the Holy Land going back thousands of years (I say "Holy Land" because religious Jews pray toward Jerusalem three times a day). Why can't you acknowledge this connection, Doug?

D) Israel didn't "drive anyone off." Israel accepted the U.N. partition plan in 1948. The Palestinians rejected it, then attempted to wage a war of genocide against the Jews.

"The worse shame is that Israel is still taking Palestinian lands every day."

No, this is factually untrue and disprovable. There is land here that is in dispute, but Israel is not "taking it," and certainly not doing so "every day" (unless you think our very presence in the Middle East constitutes a crime -hey, many Islamic dicatators would agree with you).

"How can Israel say they want peace and still continue to rob and kill the people they want peace with?"

How can the Palestinians say they want peace while continuing to perpetuate homicide bombings in pizza parlors? Or do you only condemn Jews?

"Only when our nation tells Israel to stop taking Palestinian lands, and mean it, will justice and peace come to those lands."

But of course no one needs to tell the Palestinians to stop targeting babies, right? And need I remind you that after the Camp David talks in 2000, William Jefferson Clinton blamed Arafat for not accepting Ehud Barak's generous offer of peace?

Aaron L wrote, "Our nation simply has too much at stake in this situation to indulge ourselves in ideologically-driven censorship."

Exactly. That's why it's so SHAMEFUL that Palestinian activist Ron Francis has abused his position at AHS by admitting that he recruited his students and PAID them to work for his political org, and why it is so shameful that certain people at AHS tried to organize a Middle East Seminar that ONLY featured the Palestinian side. If you believe in free speech and hearing all sides, clearly you must think this was unfair, right Aaron?

Eric Danis

Eric,

There have been many apologists for the genocide of the Native Americans, and so many other indigenous peoples. You are no different, and I will waste no time arguing about your racist views with you -- we clearly disagree.

However I want to know why you're so scared of my viewpoint? Why do you work so hard to silence me?
I am a Jewish person who has a viewpoint that is different than your own, and there are many Israelis who share my view -- I've stood shoulder to shoulder with quite a few Israelis through the tear gas and rubber bullets their own Army was busy lobbing at us.

What is it about my views that scares you so much? I merely want a chance to speak about what I saw on the ground. Not the history. Not what I think should be the solution. Only what I saw on the ground, first hand. Why does that view scare you so badly?

Vlad,

A) I did not write a single thing that is "racist" (not to mention the fact that the Palestinians aren't a "race"). Apparently you cannot participate in a discussion or debate without hurling the word "racist" around. This is immature and anti-intellectual. What exactly did I say that was racist?

B) Scared of you? Wanting to silence you? Thanks for the laugh. What's to be scared of? I actually LIVE in Israel, speak Hebrew, and understand the region. Your laughable propaganda ("I'm a Jew who has seen atrocities", etc., only works on the uninformed). Debating you is not "silencing" you. If you don't know the difference, then what can I say? All I did was point out your laughable propaganda.

Everyone knows the strategy of people like yourself:

State that you are a Jew. Pretend you have seen first-hand atrocities (make sure none can actually be verified, though). Make Israel seem like the WORST country in the world, while never mentioning the many sins of the Palestinians. Etc., etc., etc. Your routine is old and tired.

C) You want to dialogue, let's dialogue:

My former street in Jerusalem, Rehov Aza, was the site of two different homicide bombings. The first one leveled a popular bar/restaurant/club called Cafe Moment. Many people died. The second took place on a bus. I was the third or fourth person on the scene. I ran there after first checking to make sure my fiancee (now my wife) wasn't dead (she was standing outside on the street, 200 meters away from the bombing. I saw dead, dismembered and decapitated bodies, some badly burned and burning. One of the killed turned out to be a former co-worker of mine, named Anat Darom.

Do you support these attacks? Do you support the death of my co-worker? Because so far your propoganda hasn't included a single negative word about Palestinian terror or Islamic coercion. Why is that, Vlad?

It seems that you are trying to silence me with immature claims of racism and censorship. Grow up.

Eric Danis

Eric,

In most strongest terms, I condemn violence directed against civilians on either side, and I am incredibly sorry to hear about your co-worker.

However, the responsibility for that violence lies with your government Eric. It is the policies of your government that are provoking resistance, both legal (ie attacks on your Occupational Army) and illegal (ie civilians).

However the point still stands. This post ultimately boils down to a viewpoint that you do not like -- and your attempts to silence it. I still have not heard you answer why. What is so bad about Wheels of Justice giving a talk to a local school, assuming that your side is allowed the same? Why are you trying to silence my viewpoint?

Eric,

Also about war crimes -- I have specifically stated I am fully prepared to testify about what I have witnessed, under oath, in front of any competent court of law, such as the International Criminal Court in the Hague.

Vlad,

You continue to embarrass yourself with your lack of knowledge and twisting of the facts.

You wrote,"In most strongest terms, I condemn violence directed against civilians on either side, and I am incredibly sorry to hear about your co-worker."

Isn't it interesting that you are perfectly capable of going into great detail about alleged Israeli atrocities, but you can't bring yourself to directly condemn Palestinian terror? You can't even say the words "Palestinian terror." The closest you can come is a meek rejoinder condemning both sides (interesting that you doesn't have this problem when hammering the Jewish Israelis). Why is that?

"However, the responsibility for that violence lies with your government Eric. It is the policies of your government that are provoking resistance, both legal (ie attacks on your Occupational Army) and illegal (ie civilians)."

Again, you embarrass yourself with these facile, silly arguments. Now we see that you call TERROR by the name "resistance." You think that when a maniacal Palestinian bomber blew up a bus on my street and killed a co-worker, that was merely "illegal resistance," not terror. You are exposing your immoral beliefs.

Regarding "my government": In 2000, Ehud Barak worked hard with Bill Clinton to offer the Palestinians peace. In the end, Ehud said "yes." Arafat said "no," didn't counter-offer, and then launched a terror war against children (which you cowardly call "resistance"). Clinton, Chief Negotiator Dennis Ross, and almost everyone else involved blamed Arafat, including Prince Bandar of Saudi Arabia.

Last year Israel withdrew completely from Gaza. The Palestinians used this withdrawal to rain down rockets on S'derot, a city I once volunteered in for three months. S'derot is a city filled with vulnerable immigrants (many of them Russians like yourself).

"However the point still stands. This post ultimately boils down to a viewpoint that you do not like -- and your attempts to silence it."

Again, you have not explained how debating you (and exposing you) means I am silencing you. Please explain.

"I still have not heard you answer why. What is so bad about Wheels of Justice giving a talk to a local school, assuming that your side is allowed the same?"

READ THE POST ON THIS BLOG! "My side" wasn't allowed the same. It has been admitted in the press that the Israeli viewpoint was NOT going to be heard at this assembly. As a lover of free speech, that must upset you, right Vlad? Powerful teachers and union members at AHS (including Francis and Meyers) are attempting to prevent Israeli viewpoints from being heard. Why?

"Why are you trying to silence my viewpoint?"

I'm not, just pointing out how silly and asinine it is. I guess you aren't used to people challenging you and debating with you (sounds like you only hang-out with like-minded folks).

You called me racist. What have I said that was racist? Please answer.

Why can't you condemn Palestinian terror as explicitly as you condemn Israelis? Don't you admit this reveals your bias?

Vlad, your propaganda games don't work here, I'm not your usual, naive audience. Your tales of woe work better with the uninformed, don't you think?

Eric Danis

Vlad,

You are lucky your family got out of Russia with your heads on your shoulders.

Luckily you weren't in Muslim Pakistan like Daniel Pearl.

Luckily you weren't on any of the four commercial airliners and weren't in any of the Twin Towers or the Pentagon on 9/11.

Luckily you didn't write a book of fiction on the Koran like Salman Rushdie.

Luckily you weren't in a wheelchair on a cruise ship like Leon Klinghoffer.

Luckily you were weren't on a bus or a subway in London on 7/7.

Luckily you weren't on a train in Madrid on 3/11.

Luckily you weren't on PanAm flight 103.

I think you get the picture Vlad.

Let me ask you a simple question. Where is there an organization like a "Salaam Now"?

Where is an Arab/Muslim grassroots organization that interferes with Fatah, Hamas, PFLP, Hezbullah to prevent them from sending bomb laden young men to murder people on busses in Israel?

Where are Muslims for Peace and Justice that denounces the murder of Jews by Muslims?

Where are Muslims who acknowledge that Jews lived in Israel for thousands of years?

Where are Muslims who denounce the statement of the president of the Islamofascist Republic of iran who has stated his desire to wipe Israel of the map?

Gee, I hope Mike is still reading. Obviously, both sides are pretty well set in their opinions and "facts."
It seems to me the simple solution would have been to let Wheels of Justice present the Palestinian side at the assembly, and then have another assembly that presents only the Israeli side.
Instead, apparently certain Jewish voices felt it necessary to censor any Palestinian viewpoint. Sort of like when Rachel Corrie's play was censored by "members of the Jewish community who found it deeply offensive during Sharon's illness" (I believe that is the exact wording the New York Theatre Workshop used when they cancelled their scheduled performance of the play containing Rachel's words from her diary and emails from Gaza, where she records not the 41 rockets that hit Sderot but the hundreds that fly into Gaza every night).
It is possible you do not know what atrocities the Israel military is inflicting on the Palestinian population. And you obviously believe it is all Jewish land over there, so Israel to you is not stealing Palestinian land.
I disagree. Israel left 1700 or so homes in Gaza only to build over 4500 in the West Bank--no generous offer there. Whether you believe it or not, it was Arafat who made the generous offer to give up 78% of what was the Palestinian homeland before 1947. He just couldn't accept Barak's offer with its bantustanization of the meager 22% left as the West Bank, nor the refusal to allow Palestinians who still have their house keys the right of return so zealously guarded by Jews.
Still, Palestinians have committed war crimes and definitely shot themselves in the foot with their suicide bombings. (At least when Israel's Irgun bombed the King David Hotel and other Israeli factions bombed other British locations, they had the good sense not to kill themselves, too.) What goes around comes around, however.
As a "Christian" nation, it would behoove us to insist on a ceasefire in Israel/Palestine and also to insist that each side stop calling each other names and start talking! (Both sides have committed terrorism; when Israel nearly leveled southern Lebanon, killing over 1300 civilians, in order to change Lebanese government policy, that is as much the dictionary definition of terror as are the Palestinian suicide bombings. And both sides have killed children.)
After seeing the documentary film by James Longley, "Gaza Strip," I am convinced that little Palestinian children do not need instruction to hate Jews--living under occupation, seige, seeing their best friends killed by Israeli shells in front of their eyes, that is enough to make any child hate. And that is the stupidity of Israel's present course--they keep creating more "terrorists."
As a pacifist and a grandmother, I am heartbroken by the violence on both sides. I believe it comes from excessive, unrealistic fear on both sides and a complete lack of trust in each other. I don't know how that can be resolved, but I think--as the more powerful and capable--the ball is in Israel's court. If, as Rabbi Michael Lerner suggested in his book "Healing Israel/Palestine," the Israelis would offer social services to the Palestinians, helping them grow things in their greenhouses, sharing the water 50/50 (not 80/20) and land (at the very least 78/22 and not 88/12 which the Apartheid Wall is outlining), opening checkpoints, ending the occupation, and just generally showing themselves to be good neighbors instead of brutal occupiers, then I believe the Palestinians would respond with equal kindness. Someone has to start.(Mike, if you are still reading, sorry about that run-on sentence; your teachers hate them.)
And even Bishop Desmond Tutu has called it apartheid: "If I were to change the names, what is happening in the Gaza Strip and West Bank could describe events in South Africa."
Unlike the Christian Zionists who insanely want a bloody Armageddon to bring Jesus again, I pray daily and believe that Jesus will come to Israel/Palestine when both sides accept the wisdom and life-changing power of loving enemies. It is the straight and narrow way which few have found so far, but its day is surely coming.
War and violence is utter madness, and so wrenchingly futile.
Disclosure: I am a member of one of the churches supporting Christian Peacemaker Teams, the Mennonites.

June,

Considering that you are a Christian grandmother and a pacifist, I suggest that you visit Saudi Arabia and wear your typical American clothing and wear your Cross on your chest, so it's visible to passersby in Saudi Arabia.

I'm not sure which Saudi Arabian city its in but on a Sunday maybe you and members of your church could visit the largest Christian church in Saudi Arabia and say a prayer for Israel and Palestine?

Let us know how your trip turns out.

I would like to thank the wheels of justice people who have come to this site and demonstrated exactly why they don't belong anywhere near our kids -- they have nothing to do with education and everything about politics, and extreme ones at that, and getting their hooks into our kids. you don't bring a group to lie and balance it with truth and expect kids to figure out the difference when they have no basis of doing so. You people want to do propaganda. Not on my dime. Teachers are supposed to filter this stuff. The administration did the right thing.

So why "disgusted"? Disgusted that I continue to pay the salary of people like Francis and Meyers. Sounds like the inmates are running the asylum.

June,

I honestly think you are trying hard to be impartial, but you revealed a whole lot of bias in your last post.

"It seems to me the simple solution would have been to let Wheels of Justice present the Palestinian side at the assembly, and then have another assembly that presents only the Israeli side."

Why the Wheels of Justice, one of the most extreme Palestinian propaganda groups? Do you also advocate having the KKK speaking at AHS?

"Instead, apparently certain Jewish voices"

Jewish voices? Jewish voices?? Do you know for a fact that everyone who complained was Jewish? And what exactly is a "Jewish voice"?

"felt it necessary to censor any Palestinian viewpoint."

This is a ridiculous charge (claiming that Jews try to censor ANY and all Palestinian viewpoints). As Francis himself always proudly notes, many of his supporters are Jewish. And I oppose the WoJ because they called Zionism a "disease" and they have supported terror, not because I oppose all Palestinian viewpoints (I believe in a two-state solution).

"Sort of like when Rachel Corrie's play was censored by 'members of the Jewish community who found it deeply offensive during Sharon's illness'"

Had nothing to do with Sharon's illness. I think she was a fanatic. The AP has a picture of her burning an American flag in front of Gaza school children, her face snarled into a raging countenance. Maybe you think inciting a troubled population to violence is a good thing. I don't.

"(It is possible you do not know what atrocities the Israel military is inflicting on the Palestinian population. And you obviously believe it is all Jewish land over there, so Israel to you is not stealing Palestinian land."

Here is where your bias shines clearly. Everything Israel does is an "atrocity." But later on in your email we find out that bus bombings that kill Jewish kids aren't atrocities (of course not!), they are merely shooting oneself in the foot.

"I disagree. Israel left 1700 or so homes in Gaza only to build over 4500 in the West Bank--no generous offer there."

Why must the West Bank be "Judenrein"? (Devoid of all Jews?). It's disputed land, the Palestinians have also built there. Israel left Gaza and the Palestinians had a real chance to build a better society. Instead they started a competition over who could launch more rockets into Israel. Why are you making excuses for them? Are you a reverse racist who believes that Palestinians aren't good enough to be held morally accountable like the adults they are?

"Whether you believe it or not, it was Arafat who made the generous offer to give up 78% of what was the Palestinian homeland before 1947."

Complete and utter rubbish. Do you think Israel made a huge sacrifice because it has given up on the huge swaths of land known as biblical Israel? (Which encompass several Middle Eastern countries?). "Historic Palestine" is really all of the country of Jordan and all of Israel and all of "Palestine"! So if you count the fact that the Palestinians make up the majority in Jordan, the 22 percent figure is bologna. Also, what is "historic Palestine"? Was there a sovereign Palestinian country (governed by Palestinians) at any time in history?

"He just couldn't accept Barak's offer with its bantustanization of the meager 22% left as the West Bank, nor the refusal to allow Palestinians who still have their house keys the right of return so zealously guarded by Jews."

Of course you accept the Palestinian narrative hook, line and sinker. Can't trust those Jewish voices. Too bad for you that Clinton, Dennis Ross, Prince Bandar of Saudi and basically everyone involved blamed Arafat the terrorist.

Isn't it weird how Jews "zealously" guard their houses? I'm sure you would just gratefully give yours away and let Hamas govern you (say goodbye to your civil rights).

"Still, Palestinians have committed war crimes and definitely shot themselves in the foot with their suicide bombings."

What happened to the atrocity language? Like all Israel haters, you have two sets of vocabularies, huh? You sound so clinical and dispassionate when discussing the Palestinians.

"After seeing the documentary film by James Longley, 'Gaza Strip,' I am convinced that little Palestinian children do not need instruction to hate Jews--living under occupation, seige, seeing their best friends killed by Israeli shells in front of their eyes, that is enough to make any child hate."

But of course you don't expect Jewish children whose mothers are killed in bus explosions will harbor any hatred. Nope, they and their Jewish voices are probably at fault for that, too.

"And that is the stupidity of Israel's present course--they keep creating more 'terrorists.'"

Unlike the brilliant Palestinians, who voted en masse for Hamas, an anti-Semitic terror group whose charter calls for the killing of "Jews," not "Israelis." But again, you aren't worried about that radicalizing Israelis. You expect super-moral behavior from us, while in your eyes the Palestinians can do anything (after all, it's not you or your kids who will suffer).

"As a pacifist and a grandmother,"

You def. don't sound like a pacifist.

"I am heartbroken by the violence on both sides."

Doesn't sound like it. Sounds like you are heart-broken the Palestinians haven't thrown us out of our "zealously guarded" homes....

"I don't know how that can be resolved, but I think--as the more powerful and capable--the ball is in Israel's court."

Israel was recently attacked by Lebanon, the President of Iran talks about getting nukes and using them against 6 million Jews, and there is a Muslim bloc of over 50(!) countries in the UN, but Israel is the powerful country. Right.

"then I believe the Palestinians would respond with equal kindness. Someone has to start."

You mean like when we offered peace in 2000, and Arafat responded with a terror war? Or like when we withdrew from Gaza, and the Palestinians elected Hamas and started firing rockets on a near daily basis?

June, it's time to drop the hatred and bias, and to start dealing in facts.

Eric Danis, writing from "historic Palestine"

Eric Danis AKHBAR!

You don't think "war crimes" are the same as "atrocities"?
I realize my sentence construction was poor, but the thing I said was "jealously guarded" by Jews is their right of return, not necessarily their houses.
I don't believe Jews were given the land by God. After all, Abraham had 8 children and between them, I dare say they actually DO occupy all the land between the "river of Egypt" and the "great river" Euphrates.
The problem appears to be in the sharing of that land.
I guess I, like Vladislav, don't understand why you think anyone who disagrees with you or with Israeli policy is full of hatred. Unless it is maybe a case of the pot calling the kettle black, or the "beam and the mote" as Jesus said.
I think I do have some small understanding of how vulnerable you feel. But so do the Palestinians, with every mortar shell, illegal "targeted assassination," and nightly raids and shelling. What is wrong with negotiating peace with them? Do you prefer the state of constant war and the garrison type of nation you will live in behind that wall? That doesn't sound like security.
Why not follow the example of South Africa and make peace and reconciliation with Palestinians? Why live with unrelenting fear in order to claim more land? Why wasn't 78% ENOUGH?
And how can anyone have a reasonable conversation with you if you label everything they say as propaganda? That's sort of like the US saying Iran and North Korea are "the axis of Evil" or that Hamas and Hizballah are "terrorists," and therefore we "aren't talking" to them. That's unproductive. It will not bring peace.
We all need to slow down the heated rhetoric and begin to work together. I honestly believe that Ahmadinejad (or however you spell it) was only spouting heated rhetoric when he may have said "Wipe Israel off the map." (There is some disagreement on the translation.) In any case, our politicians say equally rabid things about their opponents during an election race, and then they shut up and work together.
Not a bad model; now if we could just apply it to our "enemies."

You'll know right away whose narrative you've heard and whose you haven't, when you've looked at these two maps:

1) Palestinian Loss of Land 1946 - 2000
http://www.kibush.co.il/show_file.asp?num=553

2) West Bank Final Status Map presented by Israel at Camp David, July 2000
http://www.passia.org/index_search.htm

[If you want to verify those maps, refer to those posted on the UN's website or Btselem's (below), and Gush Shalom, etc.]

Another way to check if you've had balanced information, use human rights as the centering of your lens. An excellent resource is:

"B'TSELEM: the Israeli Information Center for Human Rights in the Occupied Territories was established in 1989 by a group of prominent academics, attorneys, journalists, and Knesset members. It endeavors to document and educate the Israeli public and policymakers about human rights violations in the Occupied Territories, combat the phenomenon of denial prevalent among the Israeli public, and help create a human rights culture in Israel."

http://www.btselem.org/English/

When you get confused by the different arguments or representations presented, go back to the maps and ask yourself:

'"Does this look fair?"

And go back to the human rights-centered information and ask yourself:

"Would I want to be treated this way?"

Pollyanna or June,

I can't believe how forgiving you are of the threats of Ahmadinejad of iran.

The "wipe Israel off the map" wasn't a one time slip of the tongue.

This may be news to you but there was a guy with a small moustache in the 1930's who said something similar about Jews - and acted on it.

That may be why Israel doesn't take existential threats to it lightly.

The separation wall has been effective in reducing the number of brainwashed palestinians from entering Israel and blowing up buses full of people.

Is that why you are against the Wall?

June,

You didn't address my concern over your term "Jewish voices." What exactly did you mean by that?

You also didn't address the facts regarding "historic Palestine," a completely made-up entity that never existed.

Check out the green side-bar at this link (it's on the left):

http://www.israelhighway.org/archive-2006/26oct06.html

"Historic Palestine included not only Israel and the West Bank, but also all of modern Jordan. It is Israel, including the disputed territories, that is only 22 percent of Palestine. If Israel were to withdraw completely from the West Bank and Gaza Strip, it would possess only about 18 percent. And from Israel's perspective, it is the Zionists who have made the real sacrifice by giving up 82 percent of the Land of Israel. In fact, by accepting the UN's partition resolution, they were prepared to accept only about 12 percent of historic Israel before the Arab states attacked and tried to destroy the nascent state of Israel.

Meanwhile, of the approximately 9 million Palestinians worldwide, three-fourths live in historic Palestine."

So, I think you can drop that piece of propaganda.

RE: atrocities vs. war crimes: "Atrocities" is an emotionally-loaded term meant to demonize one side. "War crimes" is still obviously a negative label, but much less worse (and much more legal/clinical) than "atrocities." Again, when you described Palestinian terror you talked about them "shooting themselves in the foot" (sounds pretty innocent, like forgetting one's keys before a job interview), while the Israelis are committing ominous "atrocities." Why the bias, June?

"I don't believe Jews were given the land by God."

To be honest, I'm not really interested in debating theology with you (not surprisingly, given your other comments, you favor a biblical interpretation that is not favorable to Jews. Let's just say that the overwhelming majority of Jews understand the Torah as G-d giving the biblical land of Israel to the Jews. They might disagree about that means, but they don't disagree with that interpretatoin of the Torah).

"I guess I, like Vladislav, don't understand why you think anyone who disagrees with you or with Israeli policy is full of hatred."

One of the problems with your posts and your writing is that you have a tendency to write things like "ANYONE" and to talk in absolutes (see comment about "Jewish voices"). I have never said that ANYONE or EVERYONE who disagrees with me is biased or hateful. I disagree with many people, but there is of course a limit. For instance, reasonable people can disagree about affirmative action. But if one person says he is against affirmative action because all "black people are genetically inferior," that person is a racist.

There are boundaries. Your comments about Jewish voices, and your attempts to sanitize Palestinian terror while blaming literally EVERYTHING on Israel, cross those boundaries. Could that be why you aren't using your last name in your posts?

"I think I do have some small understanding of how vulnerable you feel."

It must be very small, since you advocate positions that would put me and my family in grave danger.

"What is wrong with negotiating peace with them?"

Nothing, which is why Israel offered peace to the Palestinians in 2000 (it was greeted with a terror war), withdrew from Lebanon completely (this was met by a recent attack crossing the sovereign borders of of our country by the Lebanese) and a complete withdrawal from Gaza (met by near-daily missile attacks on the South of Israel, and the election of Hamas). June, open your eyes, your blindness is truly astounding.

"Why not follow the example of South Africa and make peace and reconciliation with Palestinians?"

Another very silly comment. We aren't South Africa. We aren't racist. Have you ever heard of another country air-lifting thousands and thousands of distressed Africans into their country and giving them citizenship, like Israel did with the Ethiopians? Do you know that Israel has absorbed Morrocans, Yemenites, Russians, Hungarians, Iraqis, Iranians, etc.? We are truly a rainbow culture, and 25 percent of our country is comprised of Israeli Arabs (these Arabs have more rights in Israel than the Arabs in any Middle Eastern country have, and that's a fact). Maybe we just don't like people who openly declare they want to kill us....

Additionally, as I have noted, we have TRIED to make peace! Why don't you advocate pressuring the Palestinians, who recently elected Hamas, to make peace?

"That's sort of like the US saying Iran and North Korea are 'the axis of Evil' or that Hamas and Hizballah are 'terrorists,'"

So are you arguing that Hamas isn't a terror group? Their charter openly talks about killing Jews, they don't accept Israel's right to exist, and they deliberately send child suicide bombers to deliberately kill as many civilians as possible. If they aren't terrorists, then apparently no one is.

"I honestly believe that Ahmadinejad (or however you spell it) was only spouting heated rhetoric when he may have said 'Wipe Israel off the map.'"

Of course, because your worldview of the Middle East is based on always blaming the Jews, and always absolving Israel's enemies. Many people also thought Hitler was also spouting hot air. But hey, what do you care if the President of Iran is serious or not? It won't affect your life too much, and thus you can continue acting like it's the "occupation" that's the problem.

As if the "occupation" explains why Iran wants to wipe Israel off the map, or why there were Islamic terror bombings in Tel Aviv, Jerusalem, New York, Washington, London, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Bali, Spain, etc., etc. At a time when a head of state openly calls for the murder of six million Jews (again), you are fixated on Israel's allegedly bad behavior. And you wonder why I say you are biased?

Well, I hope my "Jewish voice" hasn't offended you (what would Jesus, a Jew, think of your usage of that term?)

Writing from "historic Palestine" - apparently otherwise known as the land that was given to all the children of Abraham,

Eric Danis

[Note: I have just now approved comment #43 which was being held due to its included links.]

JG (poster number 43),

Nice try.

Why don't you try checking out this map,though?

http://www.science.co.il/Arab-Israeli-conflict.asp#Map

Here you'll see how tiny Israel (which is the size of New Jersey) is surrounded by a veritable sea of Arab countries who, unsatisfied with the enormous amount of land they already control, have been waging continuous war against the Jews of Israel.

"The Arab nations are represented by 21 separate countries (see Table). There is only one Jewish nation with a tiny country, Israel. The combined territories of Arab countries is 650 fold greater than Israel (see map above comparing size of Israel versus those of Arab countries). Their population is 50 fold greater than Israel."

Think about this map next time you demand even more land concessions from Israel....

Dude, Eric!

Did you not look at the SOURCE of those links? They're ISRAELI organizations who clearly support the same viewpoint we voice.

Are they also anti-Israel? LOL. Silly, silly boy!
Is Breaking the Silence anti-Israel? Is Israeli Committee Against House Demotions anti-Israel? B'Tselem? Meretz?

You may disagree with them, but our viewpoint is *far* more tolerated in Israel than it is in the United States. I still ask why.

And I ask why my tax dollars ought to be going to funding your security, while endangering American lives. American support for your country has clearly undermined our global standing in the world, and has made *my* life less safe. You have no right to be reaching into my pocket and stealing my money my friend, while simultaneously increasing the likelyhood of terrorist attacks in the United States as a result. That is dead wrong.

Sorry pal. You're on the losing side here. Good luck though!

"You wish to reduce anti-semitism? All the more reason, then, to get Israel to stop its degrading, inhuman, abusive activity toward Palestinians."

--From a posting above

I also agree that the abuses of the occupation should stop, that the occupation should stop. But there is one problem, and that is attacks on Israel will not stop. Israel seems to be in a Catch-22 situation: It is damned if it continues to be harsh with the Palestinians (for understandable reasons) and it would be damned if it lets its guard down. We have to recognize that fact.

Get those settlers out by all means, and try harder to avoid humiliations, but recognize the fact that the Palestinians will not be trying hard to do the same. They will likely keep up the pressure and then report to the world when Israel overreacts.

As for Wheels of Justice, as I understand it, they're not just for ending Israeli abuses (something we can all agree with), they're for ending Israel, period. It's intellectually dishonest not to acknowledge that fact.

Vlad,

Which links are you talking about? The only links I see are from JG, but suddenly you are acting as if you posted them. Are you posting under multiple names? If so, why? Who is the "we" you are mysteriously referring to?

"Did you not look at the SOURCE of those links? They're ISRAELI organizations who clearly support the same viewpoint we voice."

Looks like someone is playing Internet games, Vlad. Are you at least being paid for your "work" on this site?

I don't understand why you think I must agree with B'Tselem or Meretz. I don't, just as you don't agree with the American organizations known as the Republicans or the Evangelicals. So, what's your point? There is no monolithic view in Israel, it's a democracy. But guess what? Meretz and B'tselem never called Zionism "a disease," as has the head of the WoJ. They don't call for Israel to be destroyed via demographics (via the "right of return), as does the WoJ.

"You may disagree with them, but our viewpoint is *far* more tolerated in Israel than it is in the United States. I still ask why."

Wrong, there is a strong liberal presence in Israel. Check out www.haaretz.com, a major, liberal newspaper that is highly critical of Israel and frequently airs left wing viewpoints. Your view that powerful Jews suppress dissenting media views is anti-Semitic rubbish:

"Another study, published this week, suggests that a strong anti-Israel current exists in American academic circles. The study, conducted by Gary Tobin and Aryeh Weinberg of San Francisco’s Institute for Jewish & Community Research, found that almost one-third of college faculty members think the United States is the greatest threat to global stability. Overall, respondents ranked America as the second-greatest threat — after North Korea but ahead of Iran, China and Iraq. Israel was ranked seventh, ahead of Syria, Pakistan and Russia."

There is no shortage of Israel criticism, neither in academia nor in the media. But I know you like to pretend that you and WoJ are heroes bucking some powerful interests, etc. Makes you feel good (I remember your dramatic first quote about "dying" if you don't tell the truth...cue the Hollywood music, hahaha).

"You have no right to be reaching into my pocket and stealing my money my friend"

I am an American and an Israeli. I have dual citizenship. I fill out tax returns in America. Don't speak about subjects you are completely ignorant about. Israel is not stealing money from America. Israel is an aid recipient, as are countries all across the world (including the Palestinians, the Egyptians, etc.). Check out a Michael Moore movie and let me know if the Saudi financial influence bothers you at all (any comment on the oil lobby?).

"while simultaneously increasing the likelyhood of terrorist attacks in the United States as a result."

What a joke. Israel is the U.S.' most reliable ally, and provides the U.S. with critical intelligence and military cooperation. If you believe that sacrificing Israel on the alter to the more than 50 (!) Muslim countries will bring peace, what can I say? I guess people also thought that sacrificing Czechoslovakia would also appease Hitler....

I'm on the "Losing" side? That must be why 70 percent of the people of Somerville just voted to oppose divestment from Israel. Whoops!
If you write back, it's OK to write as Vlad and not "JG." Shabbat Shalom, Vlad.

Eric Danis

Vlad, it must REALLY irk your handlers that Israeli's are not the unarmed Jews of WW2 Europe.

Your handlers had their way with the weak unarmed shtetl, assimilated, religious, non-religious Jews of WW2 Europe and expected an easy victory - to finish SHITlers job in "historic palestine".

How could the remnant of holocaust Jews who were decimated in WW2 possibly survive against the invading armies of 5 Muslim entities?

How could the Koran depicted "sons of pigs and apes" defeat the Muslim onslaught?

What a shock!

May you and your handlers continue to know disappointment and defeat.

Don't take this personally Mike, but your first post (post #5) represents sort of the classic naive high school kid world-view that this new breed of Ron Francis type "activist" teachers feed upon.